Merlin3945Seems a lot of money for a static rebuild .
its what the restoration figures would be and the plan is to run her on the lake every now and then as far as I have read on the website.
Merlin3945Hi.
Bluebird lifting off the water on 4th Jan 67 is something I’ll never forget.
I think it should be restored and taken to coniston water on the above
date in 2007 to complete its ill fated second run, and lay a wreath where
Donald Campbell lost his life. Then put it in a museum with the biggest
union flag as a backdrop to honour a truly great british hero.
Phil.
couldnt agree more with this sentiment.
If Vulcans can be restored and flown as so Steam powered trains be run then so can the Bluebird.
Bolllox to the lot of them. Wont be buying any more lottery tickets at all.
no point in throwing any more money to projects that I neither care about or would ever see.
Merlin3945Who are we to critisise ones effort to restore an item to its former glory.
To think of all the people on her who want this aircraft or that aircraft restored to flight just so they can see it fly.
I personally think it was the right thing to do at the time. I have had contact with Bill Smith when I was trying to get hold of some gauges for him a while back and I told him then not to take any notice of the people who slate him for restoring the thing. I personally cant find it in my heart to have an opinion on the restoration. I am dying to see it finished in all it glory. I would love to see it run on the lake first before it gets put in the museum. Dont know if this will happen but will wait and see.
But then there is the side of me that wishes it had been recovered and then left as is.
Actually I would prefer it were restored as this was how it was meant to be and not sitting rotting under water and having seen some of the boats at the Windemere steamboat museum recently that have been rotting for years and then were restored and seeing how nice they looked I am sure Bluebird would look just as good as them when Bill is finished.
For those of you interested have a look in Holker Hall if you are visiting the lake there is a full size replica of the Bluebird there.
Merlin3945I dug up a cockpit lamp just like that from a wellington crash site a couple of weeks ago along with an airspeed indicator.
one more aircraft it fits into.
Merlin3945to add my tuppence on how well foreign cemeteries are kept here is a photo of the CWGC cemetery in Rhodes town.
really well kept site.
Merlin3945I think it would do a lot of people a lot of good to engage their brains and do a little research before letting fly when someone like OD gives them some good – well meant advice.
The guy is a dope. The A-26 AFM says that aerobatics manoeuvres are “strictly” prohibited. Sorry, no glory to a person who ignores this…
Sorry Setter but as the quote above proves it was OD who came in all guns blazing and didnt have a clue.As this quote below from Invader proves.
I have NEVER done Cuban Eights or Barrel rolls in my display routine. In ANY country.
We can discuss the fact that I banked more than 60 degrees at the top of the wing-overs. But at that point with approx. 1G….I don’t see that it puts to much stress on the airplane.
and also
But….giving me credit for the way the A-26 has been displayed earlier….and by other pilots…is not something I like to read.
I think this does say it all really. Nobody is questioning OD technical ability or his own safety record but he seemed to want to launch an attack on what was a safe flying display and wasnt willing to listen to anyone else. He was in actual fact wrong about the display in the end as was OSH.
As I said before if there was any wrong doing then the sky boss would have pulled the display there and then and would not have let them finish the display. I have heard of this happen to a few military pilots before.
I noticed OD left this topic when everyone was told to cool it well now that all the facts are here on the board maybe somebody should invite him to have his say again in light of the facts being made known.
Merlin3945Thanks Invader for replying to this post and for having the time to talk to fans after the display I only wish I had been in a position to discuss the aircraft with you.
As I had already said in my other post a very safe well flown and well displayed routine. I liked the fact that the aircraft was almost rolled when banked as it is not often we see such a move with historics these day. Well at least the larger ones anyway.
I stand by all my previous post.
Please people can we only deal with facts here is yet another thread that casts a shadow over the forum on the subject of fact and fiction on forums.
Its exactly this sort of thing that get people sued.
Merlin3945Les
Say hello to Doug for me we had the pleasure of chatting many time when the old Battle of Britain chat room was going.
just tell him Scott McIntosh near Edinburgh Scotland was asking after him.
Merlin3945The whole point has been that this guy/s don’t or haven’t stayed within the limits at all times. These limits are clear in the aircraft flight manual – end of story.
I think you will find that the Leuchars display which started this topic was displayed with in the limits I must have missed the part where he did Aerobatic moves. I dont think the aircraft pulled much G at all to be honest.
Ray Hanna was not implying by the way that you “exceed” the limits.
No but he sure as hell meant test the limits.
The whole point is that people like you who spend a few “quids” every no and again to watch us who have spent lots of “quids” should not expect anything more than a fly safe operation.
People like us contribute to people like you to allow you to show off you perfectly flown aircraft. If all crowds lost interest in your particular typr of aircraft and we didnt bother to turn up to see the display then where would you be then. I must admit this is very unlikely to happen but something to think about. I would imagine you need volounteers to help maintain and clean your aircraft. Where would you be without them.
If I am ever at the same show that you are flying at and I presume you do own and operate an aircraft please remind me to switch off my camera and turn away from the display line until your slot has passed as I would not want to watch such as person as the like of you and would not wish you to see the likes of me watching you. For fear of you display being anything less than perfect.
That said I wish you many many more safe flights and you are right all anyone wants at any time is a safe journey no matter what mode of transport you have.
Merlin3945Well,not quite—he was warned on the R/T for flying over the crowd.
Must have blinked when this happened.
either end of the crowd is fair game to transition as far as I know and if we want to be smart about it the whole airshow is performed OVER the crowd ie the incoming visitor traffic which has mostly to travel in through and over the flight line.
How did you hear of this warning.
Merlin3945You know what?
All I was interested in was the pilot flew a very precise, safe and well displayed flight. And he and his crew landed safely without a hitch.
Yes I did think at some points he had overbanked but after talkin about this with others it was well within the tolerance of the aircraft and certainly just a steep angled bank.
nothing really aerobatic in his flight either. So would you have ALL historic aircraft doing a slow flypast as this would certainly be more dangerous than most of the moves performed at Leuchars or indeed other displays.
Accidents happen all the time to well maintained and very very experianced pilots. This is the way of the world and this will happen to the end of time so why not enjoy these aircraft at the height of their display life and have the type of memories that the pilots of these aircraft want you to have instead of wingeing every time a pilot does something in an aircraft you dont like.
The pilot either owns the aircraft or has the owners full permission to fly it as he sees fit so who are we to argue. If the pilot does something wrong then I am sure the Military or CAA would have grounded them immediately.
At Leuchars I saw a tornado pilot fly past the crowd at a little over the grass at the crowd side of the runway. I didnt think anything of it but heard later that he was currently taking an ear bashing by his CO on his mike. When I said a little over the grass I mean a little. He wasnt that close to us at all. So by this I think you get the idea that Leuchars are quite strict in their flying safety which they have to be because could you imagine the amount of claims their would be if something did go wrong.
Also I am sure that the CAA would still have some say in what happens while displaying at a military airshow as they still have to fly over civil airspace.
Merlin3945[QUOTE=DarrenBe]Damien – I did keep snapping away, despite the rain, as I need all the practise I can get.QUOTE]
????
Did I miss something or was the the Friday Darren.
Dry slight wind cold at point but only because of the North sea wind but bloody roasting when everyone crowded round right at the flight line to see the reds.
Merlin3945I am reliably told that the wreckage that Steve currently holds is from a 263 Sqn aircraft (P6966)that crashed in Scotland. I believe that he recovered both engines, in fact it appears from the Flypast article that RR Heritage holds both and it is planned to restore them. From the photograph on page 67 of Jan 2005, it seems that the one on disply is in reasonable condition, if a little bit knocked about from the impact of the crash.
anymore info on this aircraft as I hadnt heard of this accident before
Merlin3945if lost air crew are still at the site then its up to the families if they are removed and what should happen to the airframes even if this means destroying them.their wishes have to be respected.
If lost air crew are on board then there is no chance of you getting a licence. But if all the crew have known graves then as long as the MOD have it on their books exactly what was put in the casket then you might still get a licence.
I dont actually know but I think it is this way so that groups can go and dig crashed aircraft and if more remains are found then the site has to be cleared of remains.
If I was to go to a site dig and no remains were found then surely there is either no remains left and the salvage team did a very good job or there was very little left in the aircraft at the time anyway.
As to relatives well we usually have had contact with some of the relaties involved and they are very keen to get involved and sometimes ask if the site is to be excavated. Just think about if you were to find some personal belonging and it was in reasonable condition which does happen and this gets returned to flying officer bloggs sister or brother. I have heard of this happen and have heard of how overcome with emotion the person has been. This has got to be reward enough in doing the dig in the first case.
Another point is that there are a great many unlawful digs that go on or should it be called looting. Whereby people either visit the site and remove items from the site without a licence, Which is illegal. Or people go to the site specially to dig for hidden parts hoping to find “treasure” often called treasure hunters in our circles. In some places this is really big money whereby you could get your hands on a genuine Battle of Britain artefact.
What would you rather have looters digging up the aircraft and making money on them or lawful excavations carried out carefully and well planned and getting sites clean up.
I must now add that I dont like the fact that people sell what they find I would rather see it sit in the back of my shed than sell anything. Obviously I would rather see the items in a museum but museum space is limited and wouldnt want to take just anything.
laviticus, to answer your question on the German crews found. I had a contact in Berlin due to a specific Crew recovery from a Luftwaffe aircraft which had ditched in the sea and the answer I got was that Berlin would not put up any money for the recovery of the aircraft ( would have only been one or two of the better parts and the tail section if still intact) or for the recovery of the bodies but once recover they would make arrangements for the crew to return to germany.
This is the answer I got BUT I believe the remains could end up at Cannock Chase where Axis war graves are now in the UK.
Dave, I can totally understand you views on this but for me it is very simply I do it because I enjoy the research and the possibility of finding a really good find at the site. Ok it is part of the job that sometimes remains are found but I would rather I found them than some other group that wouldnt report the finding to the police. I wont go through the details because I dont know the state of play with libel and criminal proceedings but there was a group down south as they say that allegedly dug up a crew member removed items from his person and then reburied him.
Now I dont know what the full or truthfull story is but this has been talked about for some time so I am inclined to think it true.
I think people think they will get into trouble because they unearthed a body but the fact is that if you report the fact once you have cleared the remains away by means of the county coroner then you may well be able to finish the dig. I dont know if this always happens but it does seem likely that you would be able to continue.
But it is the simple fact that many of these guys stories would have never been told if it was for the researchers finding these aircraft. Not only does their story get told about the accident that killed them but with photos from various sources you can actually put a face to the person and sometimes even get their service records or some funny stories from an old mate or 2.
Even through all or different views on this subject one thing is quite clear.
Merlin3945Incidentally our group are doing an excavation on a wellington this coming weekend. I will let you know how it went when we have finished next week and hopefully some photos too.
This is only the first stage. The dig by hand.
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