Nieuport29I thought you’d found shots of the Short Empire “Corsair” rather than the American fighter. That would have been a find. Thanks anyway. I did find several other shots of Empires aside from the colour ones.
Cheers,
Mike
Nieuport29Not entirely sure but I have been told that one of the main reasons for a lot of the 7/8ths and 3/4 scale replicas is the reduction in cost, which can be substantial.
Even at 7/8ths it is a large aircraft and will still seat three. Going full size would have them to find a really large engine for it (there not being all that many running 500hp aircraft engines available). I am not sure what it had for a powerplant as it had a box around it made to look like sort of like a Lion. I know it flew because it appeared in several movies, one of which involved it ferrying an Inuit child with appendicitis south for treatment.
Cheers,
Mike Fletcher
Nieuport29Thanks for the link Longshot. It’s a great collection of images. Sadly the tags of the photos are very general so the ‘search’ facility is not a great deal of use. Just browsing through I saw an overhead photo of a complete Corsair fully dismantled and laid out on the factory floor (not to be confused with another of a drawing of a dismantled Corsair). Another was a close-up of the front of BAC Drone G-ADSB(?) and it’s pilot “a British flying enthusiast”
Roger Smith.
Awesome find.
Could you provide the link where Corsair was hiding – I haven’t had much luck and the search function cuts things off at 200.
I found the BAC drone BTW – the first thing I noticed was the missing engine – and then the damage (repaired) around the gear leg. Interesting engine mounts though.
Cheers,
Mike Fletcher
Nieuport29Hi Nieuport29, JDK and all,
Nieuport29, thanks for the Ottawa engine photo, it is much better than the one I have seen before, I have a question about this engine, the water cooling pipes and casting’s look different from other’s I have seen, could this engine have been a “pusher” installation ?
If you could get a serial number I know someone on here would appreciate it for his list.JDK, is the Southampton hull the closest to a complete “Lion powered” plane left ?
Andy
I have attached a photo of a 7/8ths scale replica of the aircraft the engine came from originally. This replica is in Calgary, Alberta. The original is long gone I am afraid.
Cheers,
Mike Fletcher
Nieuport29The Canadian Aviation Museum has Napier Lion II s/n 24634 which came from Vickers Viking IV G-CAEB but was restored since then. According to the museum’s notes, it has a displacement of 1461ci with bore of 5.5″, a stroke of 5.125″ and should develop 450hp (I am not sure of the source of this info).
Cheers,
Mike Fletcher
Nieuport29I have attached a shot I took of the Lion at the Rockliffe airport in Ottawa (since amalgamation it is now within the the city of Ottawa). The actual name of the museum keeps changing – it was the National Aeronautical Collection when I was a kid, then later was the National Aviation Museum and I believe it is now the Canadian Aviation Museum.
When the shot was taken earlier this year it was out of its cubbyhole where it has sat for the last 20+ years hidden between other engines while the display was redone. The museum should have opened again this week if there weren’t any major delays with the reorganization. Last I heard they didn’t have a plan and were just going to try things by ear – we’ll see how well that goes.
I don’t have the serial for it but can get it if someone needs it.
What about licence-built/copied versions – didn’t the Japanese, Russians and perhaps French build them as well?
Cheers,
Mike Fletcher
Nieuport29Anyone know what happened to all of them that were auctioned in 1971-72 at the Ernie Simmons auction in Canada?
I recall reading an article saying someone bought one as a plaything for their children.
In any event, I expected to see them show up as flying warbirds…I’m still waiting.:D
A Lot have made their way into museums, probably never to fly again.
These I’ve seen…
Canadian Warplane Heritage (Hamilton, ON) has two,
Western Canada Aviation Museum (Winnipeg, MB)
BCATP Museum (Brandon, MB)
Reynolds-Alberta Museum (Wetaskiwin, AB)
Nanton Lancaster Society Air Museum (Nanton, AB)
Western Development Museum (Moose Jaw, SK)
Privately owned (Creve Coeur near St. Louis, MO – possibly visiting)
USAF Museum (Dayton, OH)
These I’ve not…
Canadian Harvard Aircraft Association (Woodstock, ON)
No. 6 RCAF Dunnville Museum (Dunnville, ON)
CAF Museum (Midland, TX)
Pima Air & Space Museum (Tucson, AZ)
Milestones of Flight Air Museum (Lancaster, CA) – re-engined into BT-14
Aero Retro Warbirds (Wilmington, DE)
Southwest Aviation Inc (Fairacres, NM)
Privately Owned (Toledo, OH)
Privately Owned (Hershey, NE)
Privately owned, (Palm Harbour FL)
Privately owned (North Fort Myers, FL)
Privately owned (recently sold) (Birmingham, AL)
Privately owned (Casa Grande, AZ)
Privately owned (Norwalk IO)
Privately owned (Williamson, GA)
Privately owned (Brighton, MI)
Privately owned (St Charles, MO – possibly the one I saw at Creve Coeur)
Privately owned (Hershey, NE)
Privately owned (Wirtz, VA)
Privately owned (Wadsworth, OH)
So there are quite a few potentially on the circuit – most probably don’t travel much, and given the treacherous handling it is possible that many do not fly all that much either.
All of the ones listed as Privately owned showed an individuals name in the FAA registry (as opposed to a company name), of which there are 15.
There seems to be three additional aircraft on the Canadian registry in addition to those listed above.
Cheers,
Mike Fletcher
Nieuport29To me the Yale looks like a Harvard with fixed gear, what were the other differances?…………Martin
The wing centre section is narrower (it was widened on later versions to allow space for the undercarriage to retract into, and improve ground handling),
the outer wings lack the forward sweep (having a straight trailling edge) but do not have rounded tips as on the Harvard I, Wirraway and BT-9. The aileron mechanism is internal as opposed to the external arm as found on the Harvards.
Internal structure on the fin is slightly different (it lacks one of the internal stiffeners) and the rudder trim tab on stock Yales wasn’t adjustable in the air, being a small piece of sheet aluminium sticking out from the trailling edge, bent to the desired angle, rather than the built in tab of the Harvards. The elevator trim control is internal as well, unlike the external one used on the Harvards.
Rollover pylon was of the early type, which forms a ‘IX’ rather than a ‘N’ from the left hand side.
Electrical power is as per early Harvard II’s (6v iirc) unless modified.
and of course the Wright R-975 (with downdraft carb) and fixed gear.
The USAF Museum in Dayton has one masquerading as a BT-14, one of roughly 35 that have survived out of the 230 built.
Mike Fletcher
Nieuport29still looking…
It seems they cheated and pretended there was no badge and the extra profile is missing the middle part of the badge so I’d guess they couldn’t find a match either. bummer. Thanks for the effort tho.
Cheers,
Mike Fletcher
ps – His conversion missed removing the trailing edge sweep and shortening the rear fuselage (the fin and rudder were moved aft to make the Harvard II/T-6 and the outer wing panels swung forward). It provides the full camouflage pattern though which is useful.
Nieuport29Thanks – I was leaning towards 2 SFTS as being the more likely.
Any mention as to which badge was used?
(I don’t get this magazine where I am)
Cheers,
Mike Fletcher
Nieuport29The EAA museum at Oshkosh has a Pitcairn PA-39 in RAF markings (brown/green/sky w. type A1 roundels)
Nieuport29That is quite a large project you are planning on. I have been working on a project to do all the Short Empire flying boats and that is large enough.
I have attached a profile of the Short S.23 Cambria, which visited the city where I live in Canada. This is one of 18 I have done so far, several of which will appear on the box art for Czech Master Resin’s new kit of the Empire, which is to start shipping very soon. There will be 4 versions of the kit and my profile will appear on three of those.
A number of years ago a gentleman contacted me who had been involved in re-engining the Ensigns with American engines and had some questions regarding them. Unfortunately I no longer have the email (the result of a computer virus) so I can’t be sure of many of the details. The AW.27 isn’t an aircraft that gets a lot of attention.
I have a number of photos I have saved from the web, including one of DSV you might find useful, and which I have attached. Unfortunately the other two you mentioned seem to have been somewhat camera shy and I don’t have any shots of them.
One additional point – IAL didn’t use the speedbird except for the couple months that elapsed between when BOAC was formed and when it took over all operations so the shots with the Speedbird are more likely to be post – IAL.
Cheers,
Mike Fletcher
ps Excellent work BTW.
pps You might want to check out the Yahoo discussion group Wings of Peace which is devoted to the study of between the wars airliners.
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