RayRSo uptill now:PAKFA Weapons….anymore recent additions?
IR:
1>Izd 760 (upgraded R-73) to be completed in 2010[equivalent to Asraam/Aim 9X?)
2>Izd 300/K-MD to be completed in 2013 better than Izd 760
Long Range:
1>Izd 170-1/K-77-1 upgraded R-77 currently being tested.
2>Izd-180/K-77M(no lattice) further upgrade of R77 to be completed in 2010.[range increased 2.5-3 times than R-77]
Ultra long range:
1>Izdeliye 172 (K-100) Novator
2> the Izdeliye 810 Vympel.
A2G:
1>Kh-38 ME ASM
2>Kh-58 ARM
Bombs:
1>Some GPS guided KAB 250?
So basically there are two IR missiles and two R-77 derivatives and all of them are being completed in the time frame very close to each other.So i think Izd 180 and izd-300 are going to be PAKFA’s weapons where as izd-170-1 and izd-760 are going to be offered to other russian aircraft users?
Does anyone have pictures of Kh-38?
RayRWell, that’s the ISI’s finest for you…
I know;)
RayRThat would be Kota Hariharan ….no? who repeatedly said that LCA will fly in 1992, to be inducted in 1996:D
There is no person called Kota Hariharan in the development of LCA.:rolleyes: its Kota Harinarayana.Even if you cannot form any valid arguments atleast try to spell the names correctly.
Guess what, None of them were developed by ADA:eek:
Guess what , they need not be developed by ADA to be a part of Indian aviation industry.:p
I could dissect each to its bone………….
Yeah yeah …like you dissected why LCA is glorified Mirage III:D
Infact I recognise who you are..lets just say someone with a new ID who has had the penchant for getting banned multiple times in the past for trolling.Long time no see mister?:dev2:
RayROne thing is sure…….I can never be competing with your explatives. Keep up with your tradition:cool:
The “stupid” wasnt describing you..it was describing the “something”.And keep up with your tradition of trolling!
Why did you just missed the first sentance from the paragraph? Coz it did not suit your BS? here is the missed first sentance of the link
Of course not.It is a foregone conclusion that it was decided to have a Mig-21 replacement in 1983.There is no argument about that.But the actual development started only in 1990.By the way..since did you see what DRDO says about the LCA?Eat your words now!:p
About you DRDO, ADA HAL links…… Who do you think cameup with the idea of LCA and how expansive it is buying aircraft in 1990s and how we can develop cheaply in 5-6 years BS.
It doesnt matter who came up with the idea but who is actually doing it.
ADA is created out of DRDO, to oversee the LCA integration from different local and foreign entities.
Another pathetic attempt at twisting the facts.ADA didnt come from DRDO for chrissake.It is an Autonomous organisation under dept of defence development.And apart from a part where it shares some of its workcentres it is totally different.And ADA isnt just a collection of workcentres.It is an organisation in itself.I just losing count how many times i have to repeat stuff to make them register in your brain.From next time onwards I will just copy paste my quotes from previous posts.
You do have problems looking back in time ……..don’t you?
Oh no…Mirage F1(introduced 1973) was developed nearer to the LCA than mirage III(introduced 1961).Its you who has problems …lookingback..err it seems doing anything.
Nice try at taking shelter under F-22, do you seriously mean it:p
I just applied your dumb logic.Nothing else.
Oh i understand now your crow behaviur & oft example and reason for leaving the first sentance in your above quote, let me reproduce the missed part again.
When it was conceived was never an argument.When the actual development started and who started it was.And let me quote that again..
The project definition phase was completed in 1989 and the full scale engineering development (FSED) phase-I was sanctioned in 1993. The development effort for LCA is spearheaded by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), an autonomous society under the Department of Defence Research & Development(Not DRDO). ADA is responsible for project design, project monitoring and promoting the development of advanced technologies of relevance to the LCA. The principal partner of LCA is Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL)
I really dont know what type of a shameles person can argue even after DRDO says its ADA and PD was completed in 89 and FSED was started in 1993.
You mean licence building……. which was there since the foundation of HAL…. much before your DRDO came into existance. If you mean by design…… then sorry it is nothing more than your assumptions.
SighAnd once again you are just showing your bigoted views which you wont be able to substantiate and squirm when asked for proof.Dont you ever learn?
..many subsystems are being done including T/R modules.Design?Sitara,LCH,Saras,Dhruv,Nishant,Lakshya..etc etc..i could go on fr pages…but I wont.because a troll isnt actually worth the time and effort.:rolleyes:
RayRThe EF really makes a nice turn just after take off.
RayRI can understand you frustrations when the news report is provided, which you can not puch holes or discredit as DDM:diablo:
:confused: Are you in your senses?What news reports?You made BS claims against DRDO.Neither did you provide any proofs nor made any coherent arguments …just rhetorics.
, but do you have to stoop to this low….
:confused: What low?you smoking something stupid?
DRDO is made up of different organisation ………..and dear yes DRDO was the promoter of LCA concept, which was made a seperate organisation liasoning with different DRDO labs 😀 and foreign entities.
Ha ha nice to see you squirm.So promoter of the LCA is actually the developer?:rolleyes: What is a promoter anyway?Infact if we are looking into history we should say it was the aeronautics commitee.And hey nice try to twist when get caught red handed.LCA was , is and will remain a ADA project.ADA and DRDO are different.The workcentres were established only after 1984.Period.And thats the end of all your BS.DRDO is one of the responsible parties but neither the project nor the aircraft is a DRDO one.Lets see what DRDO itself says huh?
The project definition phase was completed in 1989 and the full scale engineering development (FSED) phase-I was sanctioned in 1993. The development effort for LCA is spearheaded by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), an autonomous society under the Department of Defence Research & Development(Not DRDO). ADA is responsible for project design, project monitoring and promoting the development of advanced technologies of relevance to the LCA. The principal partner of LCA is Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL)
http://www.drdo.org/products/lca.htm
I can substantiate, but not to your satisfaction,
you cant substantiate Sh1t..that much I have realised from your posts.
of Dassult involvement. Hey but here we have Dassault opened its knowledge database, guess what came out of it……..Indigenous LCA.
Oh so dassault was consulted.and that means LCA is a glorious Mirage III.Why not Mirage f1?:rolleyes:
You figure out what sort of Knowledge base Dassault might had in 1980’s, that it was willing to share:dev2:
The knowledge base for the m2K perhaps.Now according to your wonderful logic f-22 was started in 1981.So you can guess the knowledge base then in LM/boeing.And they didnt even have to share it with a third party.therefore f-22 is nothing but a glorious F-15.And typhoon is nothing but a glorious tornado..and gripen is nothing but a glorified viggen…and in this way infact..F-22 is nothing but a glorified F-15 which is again nothing but a glorified F-4 which is again…etc…so in this way F-22 is infact a glorious Mustang!What the hell are you smoking or are you just a troll?:rolleyes:
Well don’t get agitated, as am not here making up the 1983, but the press reports of the past cathing up with the new dubous attempt at 1993 LCA started fantasy.
No no..dont simplify that.you are willing to believe what you claim but not see other evidence….and thats why the crow exaple.
If you think its malicous to say 1983 LCA started and whosoever mention that is with the intent of flame bait…..:eek: then I have nothing to discuss with you here…
When I started out on the discussion I was just interested on providing information.But quickly finding out that you werent interested in the information in the first place but just grinding your axe and also finding out posts like this from other threads quickly showed me what indeed are your actual motives.
Yes the 1983 is indeed too far back for you, but to see results also require prayers for long life.
As i mentioned before results are very apparent.th aviation base in India has been formed.But you cannot be bothered about the details…just your bigoted views.
RayREither you are not reading the post or difficulty in digesting my posts.
Neither.You made some BS claims against drdo that now you cannot prove.
If you stop acting like a kid and for a change try to understand that ADA is just a nodal authority to manage the so-called development of LCA through different DRDO Labs.
And if you get your head out of the sand you will understand that ADA is not a nodal centre for DRDO labs.DRDO is a separate organisation altogether.Both have their workcentres.Although there are some workcentres which are common to both but many are different.By the phrase “establishment of ADA” it means “establishment of the workcentres under ADA as well as forming the central authority” and that only occurred in 84-85.And that holds true for the workcentres which are common to both also.FOR EXAMPLE: DARE is an DRDO organisation working under ADA for the LCA.DARE was established in 1986.By the way ADA is not only a collection of workcentres it is in itself an organisation also.And it has some facilities which are essential for development of an aircraft..windtunnel testing facilities,cockpit environment facilities ,the virtual reality centre etc.So claiming that LCA is a DRDO project is a gross misrepresentation of the truth.Nothing unusual for you really.
I can neither substantiate to your satisfaction “Indigenous”Kafir is Mirage III knowckoff as it has “canards”:D . so is “Indigenous”Cheetah, coz it has longer nose:D , well “Indigenous” LCA has cranked delta to differentiate.
There is as much literature from IAI for “Indigenous” Kafi,r as much the rumours of it being just covert dassault provided Mirage III design.
But, if you belive kafir is “Indigenous” design of IAI, chetaah is “Indigenous” design of ATLAS , then you can also belive LCA is “Indigenous”.
So basically you cannot substantiate any claim you made in your posts.Whenever in ALL of my posts did I say a_n_y_t_h_i_n_g about indigenous?You made the stupid claim about LCA just being a glorious Mirage III and now you cannot backup.
In the age we are living, there is so much conflicting reports that it is hard to substantiate anything.
Since you sound sincere, I will give you friendly advice “wary of anything which has “Indigenous” associated with it”. Most probably it is nothing but to sell the local populace …….ala “Indigenous” defence fighter (IDF), F-2 bungling etc..
If the bolded part is the case..then why are you hell bent on proving it was 1983..and disproving anything that doesnt match your claims?indian posters here have provided you with several articles also written by well known people of authority and involved in the project from the word go.If your aim is to find out the truth and not just flame why not climb down from your rigid position and take a look at the other evidences as well?You will only be benefitting yourself.
In case of me..I personally dont care when the project started be it 83 ,93 or 63.its too far back anyway , I just want the results.
RayRMaybe it is the Taiwanese who are gaming on how to defend:diablo:
RayRAm I disappointed in your capabilities………:D Clearly notthing out of expectations.
And I am not disappointed in your capabilities.You are getting better,try a bit harder and maybe you could even come up with a coherent argument!:D
So the project defination, which is design phase should not be part of develepment time. According to you Projects started with cutting of Metalr…..err importing composite wings.
Nice try to spin what I said but infact I said that the development of an aircraft starts atleast after the PD is completed!
I know you should be feeling funny, coz without studying capabilities and requirement of User, they would have proposed. Hey they were also pulling Nos from air:
So I wonder how did they arrive at the cost basis??
I think I have repeated this point now atleast 10 times..alas the crow with its head buried in the sand cannot see.One word INEXPERIENCE.
[QUOTE]
It is your DRDO-Rakshak perspective, but for others it is well orchestrated scam, Where you promise something which you know you cannot deliver in time and cost and keep demanding until you close the “successful” program.
Who are the others?The others who are significant here is the GoI and the CAG who are supposed to provide the funds.guess what!!They didnt have any problem.What a surprise!!
Yes do some more roll eyes:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: and don’t forget LCA is equivalent to F-22.
Listen you are getting very boring here spinning things and writing lies.QUOTE ME WHERE I SAID LCA IS EQUIVALENT TO F22.yes thats right.
That is the solace……….indeed and should hold on to that for rest of your life to feel better.
Guess you couldnt prove your rantings against the DRDO by facts.Not at all surprised.And you should hold on to the 1983 date for the rest of your life to feel better.
btw you didnt explain..why is LCA a DRDO project again?And also how could an organisation develop anything when it itself does not exist..I am all ears:D
So the LCA is nothing but glorified Mirage III design
Care to substantiate that argument.
RayRGlad you came down from 1993 BS, so lets bring it further till you arrive at 1983:p.
And so the crow buries his head in the sand and screams..”I am invisible..”:rolleyes:
According to you a project start where cutting the plate for plane???
And clearly according to you the development of a something such sophisticated as an aircraft starts even before the project definition is complete.Obviously thats how things are done in your country…why am I not surprised…
LCA was originally conceived in 1978but it was only sanctioned ahd entrusted to the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) in August 1983 for completion in eight to ten years. ,
http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1988/1988%20-%203419.htmlAs you can see the LCA was conceived in 1978, and Govt sanctioned it only in 1983.
Lol now its 1978!! You are turning out to be funnier than I thought.LCA is an ADA project and ADA itself came into being in 84-85.
So, do you think the developers fooling the Govt and the people???
No I think you are fooling yourself.
Are they comiiting to something which they knew they could not fulfill?? That will make them……:D
For the umpteenth time it was the iexperience that showed.And its not something extraordinary.
Ofcourse Rs5,600 Million was not enough was known by the developrers from the begining, but they had to show a small figure to whoodwink the Govt.
http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchi…0-%203419.htmlQuote:The original budget was Rs5,600 million ($378 million). Now, however, Dr Arunachalam says that he will be happy if the final cost is inside Rs20,000 million, and critics warn that it could be still more.
So they realised that 560 crore isnt enough.That is the exact point.560 crore isnt enough for developing an aircraft from scratch with almost nil infrastructure.Thats why the actual development didnt start until 1990s.Or should I put it in more simpler english?
We are discussing about project start date here not when the iron was cut or composite tech imported date If you really want to know when LCA was planned and the requirement elucidated from user you can take that as 1978, Yes 1978 the date when LCA studies began.
Today I think that f-22 need to be replaced from 2030 onwards.So that means the F-22 replacement project start date is 2008.Right!!:rolleyes:
So, ne need for you put your DRDO-Rakshak avtar.
DRDO doesnt need me to defend it.Facts speak for themselves.DRDO has its flaws but its 10 times better than all the defence industries in our neighbouring countries put together(china excluded)..whose main job is to paint stuff rather than develop stuff.:diablo:
btw..didnt you think LCA is a drdo project.So much for somebody trying to teach me the starting date.ROTFL!!:D 😀
Your main aim is to flame nothing else.
RayRActually this thread is “inundated” by the responses and counter-replies by scorpion82 and star49, because of which a coherent discussion may be difficult to track.
And since this is the mmrca thread ,their discussion is at the right place instead of rantings by people with ulterior anti-drdo motives.:)
RayRPsychological warfare.
RayRShiv Aroor is coming up with some excellent photos nowadays.
RayRAnd some other news..
Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL), a defence PSU has developed Air Borne Com ECM System for demonstration to IAF. About Rs. 2.5 crores investment was made for the same by BEL through its own fund.
PIB
Now which one is this?Mayawi?:confused:
RayRDhruv in J&K
Currently 8 helicopters are being operated by 202 Army Squadron at the Manasbal base for various uses.Their main duty is to rescue stranded army personnel at the border.Over 295 personnel have been thus rescued
from eight posts in North Kashmir in the last two months.On Feb 13 alone 80 armymen deputed on front-end posts have been rescued by 3 Dhruv choppers,flying a total of 23 hours.in addition to the soldiers Dhruv also helped evacuate their weapons and stores weighing 25 tons.Every morning two Dhruv choppers take off from the manasbal base and circle over nearby areas,to spot and rescue army personnel.
Sign In
