Updated British List

Thanks to Jeepman (glad that you are enjoying this as well) we can now update the British List as follows.

DH4

N489 NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio (composite of two aircraft)
652 The Aviation Heritage Center, Omaka, Blenheim , New Zealand
N3258 Evergreen Museum, McMinnville, Oregon (loaned from MofF Seattle)
21959 National Air & Space Museum, US
???? National Museum of the US Marine Corps, Quantico, Virginia (part original)
???? Kermit Weeks – 4 No????
???? San Diego Air and Space Museum
???? Pert Jackson

DH9

DH9
F1258 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris (high degree of originality)
F1287 Canberra, ACT, Australia
D5649 Aero-Vintage Ltd, St Leonards-on-Sea for IWM
E8894 Aero-Vintage Ltd, St Leonards-on-Sea for HAC Duxford
????? Fort Bikaner, India
????? South Africa Museum of Military History???

DH9A
F1010 RAFM Hendon (rebuilt from partial remains)

Avro 504

ex-504J
B3182 Weeks Air Museum, Miami

504K
E448 Aviation Museum of Central Finland
‘E449’ RAFM Hendon
H2453 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe
H2174 Australian War Museum, Canberra
‘H2311’ Museum of Science and Industry, Manchester
H5199 Shuttleworth Collection, Old Warden
D7560 Science Museum, London
D8971 RCAF, CFB Borden
D9029 NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio
‘ZK-ACU’ Stuart Tantrum, Blenheim, New Zealand
????? Norwegian Aviation Centre, Bødo
???? Aviation Museum of Central Finland, Tikkakoski

Bristol F2B

‘E2466’ RAFM, Hendon (rebuild on original fuselage frame)
E2581 IWM, Duxford
D7889 Sold by HFC Duxford to Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe (rebuild using substantial original components on original fuselage frame)
‘D8084’ Peter Jackson, New Zealand (rebuild on original fuselage frame)
D8096 Shuttleworth Collection, Old Warden
‘J8264’ Brussels Aviation Museum (rebuild on original fuselage frame))
“AB21” Museo del Aire, Madrid
????? Peter Jackson, New Zealand (fuselage frame only)
????? Vintage Aviation Historical Foundation, Kingsbury, Texas (incomplete)

Bristol M1C

C5001 Captain Harry Butler Memorial, Minlanton, South Australia (composite of two aircraft C4964 & C5001)

Felixstowe F5L

A-3882 NASM, Silver Hill, Maryland (Hull only – built as display exhibit, original)

Martinsyde F.4 Buzzard

MA-24 Keski-Suomen Ilmailumuseo (Aviation Museum of Central Finland), Tikkakoski

BE2

BE2c
2699 IWM Lambeth
5878 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe

BE2e
9969 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris (high degree of originality)
A1325 Peter Jackson, New Zealand
F1380 Gardermoen Museum, Nr Oslo

RE8

F3558 IWM, Duxford
A4719 Brussels Aviation Museum

SE5

SE5A
C1916 Canberra, ACT, Australia
F904 Shuttleworth Collection, Old Warden
F937/’F-939′ Science Museum, London
F938 RAFM Hendon
F7781/F7783 National Museum of Military History, South Africa

SE5E (Eberhart):
“G-BLXT” (original identity?) Flying A services/Wizzard Investments, Greenham Common
“AS-22-325 NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio

Short 184

8359 FAA Museum, Yeovilton (incomplete but highly original)

Sopwith Baby

‘N2078’ FAA Museum, Yeovilton (composite of 8214 & 8215)

Sopwith 1½ Strutter

1263 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris
2897 Mémorial Flight Association, Cerny/La ferté Alais
S86 Brussels Aviation Museum
???? Kermit Weeks, Polk City, Florida (incomplete?)

Sopwith Pup

Original Pup:
B1807 Kelvin Baker, Winchcombe? (incomplete)
N5182 RAFM Hendon (rebuilt around substantial original components)
N5195 Museum of Army Flying, Middle Wallop

Converted Dove:
‘9917’ Shuttleworth Collection, Old Warden

Sopwith Triplane

N5486 The Aviation Museum, Monio, Moscow
N5912 RAFM Hendon

Sopwith Camel

F1:
B5747 Brussels Air Museum
F6314 RAFM Hendon
B6291 Al Letcher, Mojave, California (now sold?)
B7280 Polish Aviation Museum, Krakow (incomplete)
“N6254” D&R Holbert, Aerospace, Little Rock, Arkansas

2F1:
N6812 IWM Lambeth
N8156 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe

Sopwith Snipe

E6938 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe
E8102 Canadian War Museum, Ottawa (Fuselage only)
E8105 NASM, Smithsonian, Washington

Vickers Vimy

F8630 Adelaide Airport (repaired after fire damage)
BAPC.51(no serial No) Science Museum London (high degree of originality)

No Known Survivors (250+ Built)

DH2 (450 built)
DH5 (350 built)
DH6 (2,950 built)
Bristol Scout (381 built)
Handley Page O/400 (661 built)
Martinsyde G100/G102 (271 built)
FE2b (1,484 built)
FE8 (295 built)
BE12 (600 built)
Sopwith Dolphin (1,639 built)
Vickers FB5/FB9 (309 built)

I am still a little uneasy about one or two of the ex-WoG Brisfits and am still digging – I have been studying photos of the frames and they appear rather more hetrogenious in appearance than I would have expected. I would like to trace the history of these back via old W&Rs, unfortunately my set is far from complete – does anyone have a full set and the inclination?

I must say that I enjoyed Mike’s photos – am I correct in thinking that this H-S was the tulipwood bodied one whose restoration was featured in “Classic & Sportscar” about 15 years ago as being restored by an English chap whose restoration was his life’s work and who sadly died just before undertaking the final finishing touches?

I anticipate being able to post the starter list for German aircraft tomorrow night and the final list coveringthe other nations will not be far behind that.

From Eddie

I think you missed my post correcting the location of the SPAD XVI though – it’s at the NASM’s Udvar Hazy Center at Dulles Airport in Washington DC.

Apologies Eddie – a bit of finger trouble here – I remember editing my master list to this effect, but somehow I lost the edit. I have now changed it again hopefully permanently this time!

Thanks for reminding me again.

Thanks Baldeagle – facinating stuff by ‘Spadmaker’ on that site.

Will aim to post an updated French list midweek.

Starter French list

This is still a bit of ‘a work in progress’ but it has reached the stage where it is ready to be attacked. You will also note that two Spads appear to be sharing the same identity – which looks a little suspicious if true…

Breguet XIV

???? Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris

Caudron G III

3066 RAFM Hendon
???? Brussels Air Museum
???? Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris

Caudron G IV

???? Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris

Hanriot HD 1

75 RAFM Hendon
78 Brussels Air Museum
515 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle
653?? Fliegermuseum, Duebendorf

Maurice Farman MF.6 Shorthorn

???? National Science Museum, Tokyo

Maurice Farman MF.7

‘1’ Norsk Teknisk Museum, Oslo
???? Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris

Maurice Farman S.11 Shorthorn

‘VH-UBC’ Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe
???? Brussels Air Museum

Maurice Farman HF 20

???? Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris

Moraine-Saulnier AI

1567 Mémorial Flight Association, Cerny/La ferté Alais (Type XXIX)
1573 Kermit Weeks, Polk City, Florida
???? Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, New York State

Nieuport 10

???? Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, New York State

Nieuport XI

N556 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris

Nieuport 12

1504 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe

Nieuport 23

N5024 Brussels Air Museum

Nieuport 28C1

607 Fliegermuseum, Duebendorf
‘N4123A’ NASM, Washington Dulles (composite of at least five aircraft: 6497, 7103, 7226, 6465 & 6432)
???? Museum of Flight, Seattle

Spad VII

S153 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle
???? Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle
S254 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris (high degree of originality)
B9913 Virginia Aviation Museum, Richmond, Virginia (note shares identity with CAM example)
B9913 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe (note shares identity with VAM example)
B9916 San Diego Aviation Museum
AS94099 NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio
????? Czech Aviation museum, Kbely

Spad XIII

SP49 Brussels Air Museum
S4377 Mémorial Flight Association, Cerny/La ferté Alais
S5295 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris
S7689 NASM, Smithsonian, Washington

Spad XVI

AS9392 NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio

Voisin L.A.S

V955 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris
???? Brussels Air Museum (incomplete)

Voisin VIII

4640 NASM, Smithsonian, Washington

I am afraid that there will be no updated British list tonight as I still have work to do on it.

Look forward to receiving your corrections.

Firstly apologies to Jeepman for missing his correction on the DH9/DH9A split last time round, it is now corrected on my master list.

On a similar vein I would welcome anyone who could sort out the DH4s – I must say that I find the muliplicity of variants of these confusing enough to start off with (I can just about cope with the difference between the DH4 and the DH4A, but there seem to be so many sub-variants, particularly amongst the mail carriers – I seem to recall reading somewhere that there are over sixty), but the real problem is that I cannot categorise all of the survivors – e.g. does Kermit Weeks really have four originals and if so what are they all?

I wonder if anyone anyone has anything more to add on the Weston-on-the-Green Brisfit survivors, I have a nasty suspicious mind and these make me slightly uneasy. (Partly I suppose because of my my memory of the look of the RAFM’s frame when I saw it as a schoolboy, which is hardly a robust reason I know).

Thanks for the info on the RAFM Pup I feel that this should go in the list, with a suitable endorsment, next time round.

As to the requests for Spads, etc, as I suggested earlier, to stop the lists being too unweildy I suggest having a new list for each nation and disaggregating by design nationality. Once we have finished this list I would suggest one for French designed aircraft, one for German designed, and one for everything else. Although I suppose that there is no reason why we could not continue to use the same thread to post them on.

I understand that Spad at Rockcliffe is a Mann, Egerton & Company built example; however, under my system it would go on the French list!

Composite List

Here is the latest, thanks for all of your corrections, apologies are due for not consulting W&R20 over the Avro 505K survivors before I posted. The stuff that I have but on DH4s is pretty sketchy and will need some decent expertise to sort it out. There are a few other info gaps to sort out, otherwise I think that we might be getting quite close to a definitative list.

Avro 504

ex-504J
B3182 Weeks Air Museum, Miami

504K
E448 Aviation Museum of Central Finland
‘E449’ RAFM Hendon
H2453 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe
H2174 Power House Museum, Sydney, Australia (modified)
‘H2311’ Museum of Science and Industry, Manchester
H5199 Shuttleworth Collection, Old Warden
D7560 Science Museum, London
D8971 RCAF, CFB Borden
D9029 NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio
‘ZK-ACU’ Stuart Tantrum, Blenheim, New Zealand
????? Norwegian Aviation Centre, Bødo

Bristol F2B

‘E2466’ RAFM, Hendon (rebuild on original fuselage frame)
E2581 IWM, Duxford
‘D7889’ Sold by HFC Duxford to Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe (rebuild on original fuselage frame)
‘D8084’ Peter Jackson, New Zealand (rebuild on original fuselage frame)
D8096 Shuttleworth Collection, Old Warden
‘J8264’ Brussels Aviation Museum ((rebuild on original fuselage frame))
“AB21” Museo del Aire, Madrid
????? Peter Jackson, New Zealand (fuselage frame only?)
????? Vintage Aviation Historical Foundation, Kingsbury, Texas (incomplete)

DH4

N489 NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio (composite of two aircraft)
21959 National Air & Space Museum, US
???? National Museum of the US Marine Corps, Quantico, Virginia (part original)
???? Kermit Weeks – 4 No????
???? National Postal Museum, Washington DC
???? San Diego Air and Space Museum
???? Pert Jackson

DH9

DH9
E8894 Aero-Vintage Ltd, St Leonards-on-Sea for HAC Duxford

DH9A
F1010 RAFM Hendon
F1258 Le Bourget, Paris
F1287 Canberra, ACT, Australia
D5649 Aero-Vintage Ltd, St Leonards-on-Sea for IWM
????? Fort Bikaner, India

Felixstowe F5L

A-3882 NASM, Silver Hill, Maryland (Hull only)

BE2

BE2c
2699 IWM Lambeth
5878 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe

BE2e
9969 Le Bourget, Paris
A1325 Peter Jackson, New Zealand
F1380 Gardermoen Museum, Nr Oslo

RE8

F3558 IWM, Duxford
A4719 Brussels Aviation Museum

SE5

SE5A
C1916 Canberra, ACT, Australia
F904 Shuttleworth Collection, Old Warden
F937/’F-939′ Science Museum, London
F938 RAFM Hendon
F7781/F7783 National Museum of Military History, South Africa

SE5E (Eberhart):
“G-BLXT” (original identity?) Flying A services/Wizzard Investments, Greenham Common
“AS-22-325 NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio

Short 184

8359 FAA Museum, Yeovilton (incomplete)

Sopwith Baby

‘N2078’ FAA Museum, Yeovilton (composite of 8214 & 8215)

Sopwith 1½ Strutter

1263 Le Bourget, Paris
2897 Mémorial Flight Association, Cerny/La ferté Alais
S86 Brussels Aviation Museum
???? Kermit Weeks, Polk City, Florida (incomplete?)

Sopwith Pup

Original Pup:
B1807 Kelvin Baker, Winchcombe? (incomplete)
N5195 Museum of Army Flying, Middle Wallop

Converted Dove:
‘9917’ Shuttleworth Collection, Old Warden

Sopwith Triplane

N5486 Monio
N5912 RAFM Hendon

Sopwith Camel

F1:
B5747 Brussels Air Museum
F6314 RAFM Hendon
B6291 Al Letcher, Mojave, California
B7280 Polish Aviation Museum, Krakow (incomplete)
“N6254” D&R Holbert, Aerospace, Little Rock, Arkansas

2F1:
N6812 IWM Lambeth
N8156 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe

Sopwith Snipe

E6938 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe
E8102 Canadian War Museum, Ottawa (Fuselage only)
E8105 NASM, Smithsonian, Washington

Vickers Vimy

???? Science Museum London

I think that the DH-4 identified by low’n’slow is this one: http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=63213&highlight=DH-4, accordingly it does not appear to count.

There are a few questions; does anybody happen to have the s/n of the 504K in Bødo (pity that I missed this museum when I had a few hours to kill in Bødo a few years back!), the s/n of Fort Bikaner DH9 and embarassingly I have yet to stick in the s/n of the Allcock & Brown Vimy.

I am still slightly exercised by the issue of what consitutes an original aircraft – for example although there is is not a lot left of the Yeovilton Shorts 184, the heart of the plane is there and what there is is outstandingly original & has cast-iron provenance, whereas for example in the case of the N&SAM’s Felixstowe F5 nose section in my view there is just not enough of the plane left for it to count – views anyone?

On the same subject I was looking at the version of the RAFM catalogue that I purchased on my visit of 5/1/89 (I have not invested in a new one since!) and it says this about their Sopwith Pup replica “The aircraft exhibited was built, making use of extensive original Pup components, by Lieutenant Commander St Cyrien over a number of years… and is the most authentic Pup in existence”. Yet this does not seem to count as a survivor by accepted criteria whilst a converted ex-2 seat civilian version does. Views?

I will go off-line then!

There are no DH9s in the USA. I suspect you mean DH4s

Yes – mea maxima culpa