star49Upgrading Flanker for $5M? It is even less than MIG-21BISon upgrade in today prices.
Author: Konstantin Lantratov
Reference: Kommersant, No. 209, November 10, 2004, p. 14
/WPS Summary: Russia’s display at Airshow China 2004 was mostly made up of the latest technology: products now at the stage of being ready for export. Moreover, Rosoboronexport was able to hold a number of meetings during the expo that have resolved some disputed issues in arms exports to China./
WPS Subject: Russian military aviation exports to China continue
Over the past few years, China has repeatedly complained to its Russian partners that they are selling obsolete military hardware. Apparently having taken the strategic partner’s wishes into account – and China’s status as a strategic partner was confirmed during President Vladimir Putin’s recent visit to Beijing – Russia’s display at Airshow China 2004 was mostly made up of the latest technology: products now at the stage of being ready for export. Moreover, Rosoboronexport (Russian Defense Exports, which handles all arms deals with China) was able to hold a number of meetings during the expo that have resolved some disputed issues in arms exports to China.
The decision about continuing licensed assembly of Su-27 fighters in China was the largest success. The contract for licensed production of 105 fighters in the Su-27SK version in the aircraft plant in Shangyang (China) and option for 95 vehicles was concluded in 1996. The total amount of the contract came to $2.5 billion and the term of realization is 15 years. However, China assembled 105 Su-27SK fighters and didn’t hasten to use the option. It considered these plans to be morally obsolete. Aicraft construction holding company Sukhoi developed upgraded project Su-27SKM and the latter was demonstrated at the expo in China. To all appearances, the upgraded variant satisfied the Chinese.
It is planned that 141 Su-27SK fighters, which were supplied from Russia and assembled in China, will be upgraded in accordance with the Su-27SKM variant. The price of this upgrading will be $5 million for one plane and the total amount of the contract will be over $700 million. It is possible that one of the conditions of the supply of upgraded Su-27SKMs to China was the purchase of 24 multi-purpose Su-30MKK to the amount of $1 billion. However, this contract can be concluded no earlier than late 2005.
star49As usual Brute the chimpanzee is bringing some fan articles which are based on Indian boosting of LCA capabilities. there is no evidence of Gripen radar for LCA.
As compared to Star49 the Donkey, bringing out fan articles based on Pakistani boosting of the FC1? đ
For now, there is no evidence of any radar type being confirmed for the PAF…seems they want a lot, but noones willing to sell it to them.
Prove it that i have brought any article from fan site? All are news from reputable sources like Flight International. And i havent boosted about FC-1 anywhere and FC-1 does not need any boosting as it is already gaining quite attraction with well known character. and comparing it to LCA. Give me a break. This is from aviation week about radar offering for PAF both West and Russia is there. So where is the basis of your BS claim that no one is selling radar.
Chinese Defense
Great Leap Forward . . . In Small Steps; China’s air force is beginning to turn around years of neglect and decay
Douglas Barrie
2,289 words
8 November 2004
Aviation Week & Space Technology
51
Volume 161, Number 18
At least three prototypes of the FC-1/JF-17 have been assembled so far; the first aircraft flew in September 2003. Pakistan is participating and is the lead customer for at least 150 aircraft. The PLAAF has yet to formally commit to acquiring the FC-1, although the platform–intended to be comparatively low-cost–could prove attractive.
The avionics and radar fit on the Pakistani aircraft has yet to be determined, with both Western and Russian systems on offer. A Chinese purchase, however, would almost certainly see the use of indigenous equipment, with the possibility of maximizing commonality with the J-10.
star49Does the GOI need to give you in writing when the deal will be signed , Its before the CCSA and it will be given the go ahead when it comes before it , The DM , Navy Chief had said repeatdly that its being examined by the highest authority in the country and it will signed soon , After all there are billions of Dollar involved in such a deal and I am sure lots of government body , media and public at large will be scrutnising the deal after it is signed and the GOI needs to take a carefull and calibirated decision before going the goahead , the GOI is very well aware of the Navy critical need for subs .
Who said all three deal will be signed together the Scorpene deal will be the one to get the goahead first , the navy just started examining the Amur as said by a Senior navy officer to a newspaper , I am sure we are all hearing of modified amur with brahmos etc etc has a lot to do with India . The financial aspect of any deal will be only know after the deal is signed and what kind of TOT is involved and the numbers being built at the Shipyard etc , lots of thing needs to be taken in to account , Initally per reports from media and navy and MDL officials 6 Scorpene will be built at the Mazagoan Docks .
Defence deal is signed by any government BJP/Congress as per the critical defence needs of the country , No government will say no to defence purchase if it affects the country security , Its just that the media highlights the fact that one particular party government will be signing more deal than the others or things like that , Ofcourse changes in the government affects the pace and timings of the deal since the new government has to take charge of the situation . And all defence deal are passed through the Finance Ministry which looks into the financial aspect of every deal and ofcourse affordibility and long term finincial commitment involved , whith a growing GDP rate of 6 + percent India can well afford with minimum rise in defence budget to take care of defence purchases without affecting the economy.
My initial statement was based on $4.5B for scorpenes which you people seem to challenge. 6 diesel submarine price cannot be that much. So the price is lower. And 7 to 8 % inflation kills small increase in defence budget. just look at the 50% rise of euros versus dollar since May 2002 when negotiation was finalized.
star49Russia is perfectly capable of develping operational PAK-FA by 2012 alone.(first flight 2008) with miniumum of $10B of development budget. The question is not about this $10B but to produce sufficient quantities that price per unit does not go beyond $100M per plane. Other wise high costs will kill the procurement both internally and exports.
star49from where they get 80KM search range for Grifo S-7 and two engagement? the earlier Grifo does not have multi target engagement and the later has 4 to 6 engagement and 100KM lock on range and Grifo is installed in S-7. As usual Brute the chimpanzee is bringing some fan articles which are based on Indian boosting of LCA capabilities. there is no evidence of Gripen radar for LCA.
FC-1 uses is FIAR Corporation’s Grifo S-7, its working pattern includes: Empty, open area, spatial sea, side ćŤčžš with and so on 25 kind of working patterns. It to the airborn target maximum search distance is 80 kilometers. May simultaneously track 8 goals. And may simultaneously join battle with 2 goals
star49that would mean the south african darter++ developments and the SD-10 are not hopeful.
why waste $$ when these two ‘better’ streams of products are available. ukraine is not marketing any aam on the market to my knowledge.
Ukranina missile is most likely be AA-10EP. It is longer range and twice heavier missile as compared to darter and SD-10. So they are not in the same category.
star49A most interesting post, indeed!
Is 04 up and flying already? The 01 and 03 are the only ones known to be flying. 04 was suppose to fly next year. 02 is for static tests.
I dont think prototype is 04 is for flight tests. It is the fifth one that is for weopon testing. they just said flight test hrs for all aircrafts.
Egypt has been reported as interested several times in the Chinese newsgroups but this would the first time in the western press.
China also requires hundreds of new lightweight fighters but has several other options.
Egypt participation at this stage is good as they experiance with Block40 F-16 and Mirage 2000. China does not need any light fighter.
There were quite a few reports of the F-7PG gaining interests back when the PAF began receiving them in 2001 and Bangladesh was one of them as well as Zambabwe. I haven’t heard much since.
Bangladesh had recently put out a tender for new fighters. They had said that the FC-1 was the lead candidate.
Now, the question is: did the F-7PG win this contract (this means the F-7PG had beaten out the FC-1 for the BAF contract) or were these 12 F-7PGs fullfilling an earlier order and the BAF could still end up with FC-1 also?
Bangladesh contact was for FC-1/K-8 combination and is not finalized yet. this more like stop gap measure.
So three prototypes ARE flying!!! Maybe when they say next year for the 04 it’s the weapons integration.
next year is 05 prototype.
So that’s why the FC-1 never shown up live this year.
The signs from the last air show in 2002, according to Richard Fisher, was that CAC already greatly upset about the J-10 being underwraps.
The blocking of the FC-1 flying ptype at Zhuhai AFTER CAC had sent out signals that a live bird would be there must have CAC at a boiling point.
The sad truth is that the Chinese government and secrecy don’t quite mesh with the firms’ need to advertize and sell.
Most of the Chinese weopons are under tests or not officially acknowleged. It is better this way it keep Russia guessing and counting years.
star49“The next sentence follows on by adding: “the LCA and FC-1 basically belong to the same class of fighters.”
I would guess they mean in the same weight class. Technologically there is no match up between the two. Clearly a generation apart LCA and FC1 are.
Not one generation apart but alteast two generation part.
just look at the pathetic article even the basic FC-1 specifications are wrong.
star49actually the contact is suspended since May.
Airshow China-2004 has opened
Author: Mikhail KukushkinSource: Vremya Novostei, November 2, 2004, p. 8
[The Su-27SKM armed with air-to-surface missiles performed a flight at Airshow China-2004. Russian representatives did not comment on the possibility of selling the fighter to China. Meanwhile, it was the highlight of the program at Airshow China-2004.]
<> THE SU-27SKM MULTIFUNCTIONAL FIGHTER WAS DISPLAYED AT AIRSHOW CHINA-2004
China has suspended the contract to produce the Su-27SK fighter under Russia’s license because this warplane does not meet the requirements of the Chinese military. Russia displayed the Su-27SKM modification, which could meet China’s requirements at Airshow China-2004. In the meantime, the Russian leadership has not made a principal decision to export the Su-27SKM fighter to China.
China purchased the license to produce 200 Su-27SK fighters in 1996. This contract stipulated assembling of warplanes using details and spare parts produced in Russia. China suspended the project in May 2004 after receiving spare parts for producing 95 fighters. The Sukhoi holding and the Chinese military did not announce the cause of this decision.
A source in the Russian delegation at Airshow China-2004 said that China wants Russia to arm these fighters with guided anti-ship missiles. The Su-27SK model is not designed for attacking naval targets. This is a pure fighter, i.e. a warplane for combating air targets.
The Su-27SKM armed with air-to-surface missiles performed a flight at Airshow China-2004. Russia displayed this warplane at an air show in Dubai last year. However, Alexander Klementyev, deputy general director of the Sukhoi holding, stated that the fighter was not prepared for exports at that time. In China the fighter was displayed as a commercial product. Mr. Klementyev did not comment on the possibility of selling the fighter to China. Meanwhile, it was the highlight of the program at Airshow China-2004
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star49RD-33/RD-93 from Military technology.
Being the powerplant of the MiG-29, the RD-33 has followed the fortunes of the aircraft. Production reached a peak in the ’80s and early ’90s, while afterwards the sales of the MiG fighter have been stagnating. More recently, however, a series of significant orders for new-construction aircraft, including most notably from India and Algeria, have led to the production line being reopened, which in turn provides the indispensable basis for possible additional commercial successes. The Klimov RD-33 powers all MiG-29 versions. .
As regards in particular the RD-33, several improvements to the basic engine and a few new versions have been developed, some with very promising prospects in the export market. First of all, the basic philosophy for engine inspection and TBO intervals, which was originally tailored to the Soviet concept of regarding all weapons systems as being expendable in war and thus expected to have a very short life, has been totally changed. TBO has been progressively increased from 300 hours to 1,200 hours for already existing engines (up to 1,600 hours for the German and now Polish MiG-29s), while the latest production engines (3M series) boast an excellent 2,000 hours figure. As regards new versions, a modified RD33K brought to 3M standard will power the navalised MiG-29Ks onboard the ex-ADMIRAL GORSHKOV, and basically the same engine minus the naval-specific characteristics is the logical choice for the Algerian MiG-29Ms. Further, the RD-93 derivative model for single-engine installations has been selected to power the Chinese/Pakistani FC-1 fighter-bomber. The most significant difference between the RD-93 and the original RD-33 is the repositioning of the accessory gearbox along the bottom of the engine casing. The original functioning envelope (speed/altitude) of the L100 TVC nozzle of the AL-31FP as a part of the engine’s overall envelope. “Reversed flight” refers to manoeuvres such as the “Pugachev’s Cobra”, with the aircraft effectively flying tail first in a controlled flight mode.
Another interesting proposal is represented by the RD-133, which introduces Klimov’s own KVILT axisymmetric thrust vectoring nozzle (up to 15° deflection in every direction). This nozzle is claimed to be suitable for retrofit on the standard RD-33 engine, which could represent a way to remarkably improve the overall combat potential of the aircraft. The RD-133 also offers a higher thrust, reaching 88.25 kN (8,990 kg) with the afterburner lit and 54.9 kN (5,590 kg) in dry power.
Further potential development is given by the RD-43 VKS, which would introduce a new low pressure fan/compressor, improved turbines and fully implemented FADEC control to raise the thrust level to reach the 10 tons-class.
The RD-33 is a two-shaft low by-pass (0.49) turbofan. The inlet has no guide vanes and only four support struts for front bearing of the fan/low pressure group. The fan/low-pressure compressor has four stages of traditional construction. The low-pressure group is driven by a single-stage turbine. The high-pressure compressor has nine stages with the inlet guide vanes and the first two stages stators with variable incidence. The high-pressure turbine has a single stage with air-cooled single-crystal blades. The overall engine pressure ratio is in the range of 21.
The annular combustion chamber has airblast nozzles. The afterburning takes place downstream of a mixer section for the cold and hot flow, and is characterised by radial spray nozzles followed by radial flame stabilisers. The exhaust nozzle is of the full variable geometry convergent-divergent type.
Considerable emphasis is currently being placed on combat aircraft technologies such as “stealth” and the expected future contribution of Unmanned Combat Air Vehicle to the future airland battle. But while such subjects are nowadays highly topical, they should not obscure the fact that the powerplant remains, as it was one century ago and will always be, the most fundamental element for any air vehicle to achieve the required performance and indeed to fly. Coniglio traces the status of the current major combat aircraft powerplant programs to provide a perspective of today’s technologies level, which represents the basis for future evolution.
star49Onlee 200 R-77 for over 270 Flankers. Very low opinion about the missile
China Pursues Air-to-Air Radar Competition
Aviation Week & Space Technology 11/08/2004, page 40
Douglas Barrie Zhuhai
China’s Air-to-Air Radar Competition
A three-way battle is emerging in a potential radar upgrade for China’s Sukhoi Su-27 and Su-30 combat aircraft, pitting domestic and Russian manufacturers against one another.
The Su-27 and Su-30MKK aircraft operated by the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) are fitted with versions of the Russian NIIP N-001 cassegrain radar developed originally for the Su-30 Flanker in the 1980s. Although improved versions of this radar are being supplied, Russian officials at Air Show China said the PLAAF is interested in a further radar and avionics upgrade. This would also cover license-produced Su-27s, known as the J-11.
Alongside NIIP, Russian radar-manufacturer Phazotron is entering the fray, while China’s Nanjing Electronics Institute is offering a multirole pulse Doppler radar it’s developing.
The PLAAF may make a decision on the radar upgrade program during 2005, say Russian sources. Russian officials also claim that China has declined the offer of license-producing the N-001, preferring to develop or acquire a modern system.
Phazotron industry executives say the N-001 has suffered as a result of its Soviet-era heritage. Components once sourced from within the USSR are now produced in a number of countries.
Two significant upgrades of the N-001 have so far been provided to the PLAAF. NIIP officials say these are the N-001VE, which allows PLAAF Su-27s to be flown with the Vympel R-77 (AA-12 Adder). Around 200 of these Russian missiles have been bought by the PLAAF in several batches.
The abililty to use this active radar-guided air-to-air missile provides a significant improvement in the PLAAF’s inventory. The N-001VE enables the upgraded aircraft to engage two targets simultaneously using the R-77.
The second upgraded radar is provided with the Su-30MKK. Designated the N-001VEP, this introduces air-to-surface modes in support of the use of air-to-ground weaponry. Further improvements will be tested on an Su-30MK2 early next year.
Phazotron will offer its Zhuk-MSE slotted-array radar as its upgrade proposal, while NIIP will likely propose its N-001VEPF, a passive, electronically scanned variant of the original radar.
Whether the PLAAF will eventually try to standardize a radar across its fleet of Flanker versions, including its license-manufactured J-11, is not yet clear.
While coproduction of the N-001 may have held little interest for Beijing, some Russian officials suggest a joint program remains a possibility. Phazotron officials did not rule out this option, noting it has in the past provided some technical assistance to Nanjing.
Phazotron, however, also has previous experience pursuing radar opportunities in China. A version of its Zhuk radar was test-flown on a Shenyang F-8IIM aircraft. This type is known to have been offered to Iran and Egypt, though neither country opted to purchase the aircraft. An upgraded version for the PLAAF is fitted with a radar from the Nanjing institute.
Another factor which could influence a PLAAF decision, particularly on the J-11 variant of the Flanker, may be its interest in integrating the SD-10/PL-12 active radar-guided AAM on the aircraft. This Chinese missile is in the final stages of development, and is understood to have already been integrated with a Nanjing radar in the course of the test program.
Integrating this missile with another Russian radar, despite many of the SD-10/PL-12’s key subsystems being provided by Moscow, would be a considerable task.
star49Are there any further infos about those engines?? đ
Becomes very interesting with WS-10A around the corner in mind. đ
AL-31F or RD-93 are not 5th generation engines. So you can guess AL-31FM1 as 4+ and AL-31FM2 for 5th generation.
star49Are there infos about engine of FC-1? Prototypes so far with Russian RD-93 in China. đ
FC-1 engine will be RD-93 but they havent signed a contract yet. dont know why this late.
star49Russia now sells its best arms to China – TV
568 words
8 November 2004
03:13 pm
BBC Monitoring Asia Pacific
English
Excerpt from report by Russian external TV service NTV Mir on 8 November
[Presenter] Moscow is arming Beijing. An international air show, which has just closed in China, has demonstrated the new capabilities of the army of Russia’s southeastern neighbour. Quantity turns into quality: wholesale purchases of obsolescent Soviet hardware are giving way to exclusive imports of state-of-the-art military technology. Russia now is selling its erstwhile potential enemy the hardware it does not yet have in its own arsenal. NTV’s special correspondent Sergey Morozov reports from Zhuhai.
[Correspondent] The Chinese C-in-C is inspecting the display of Russian weapons. There are virtually no weapons from other countries at the airshow – the European Union has maintained its arms embargo against Beijing for 15 years. Even in these conditions, however, Russia is finding it increasingly difficult to trade: China is growing richer and becoming more demanding.
It became known the other day that China, which used to happily produce hundreds of Su-27 aircraft under licence, has refused to extend the deal. The Sukhoi management believe the reason is that the Chinese have now seen better versions of the same machine.
[Mikhail Pogosyan, director-general of the Sukhoi aircraft holding company, interviewed at his office in Moscow] This year we are, for the first time, displaying in China the Su-27SM one-seater, which is an upgrade based on the Su-27 providing better efficiency against aerial targets and the use of guided weapons against targets on the ground.
[Correspondent] The Su-27SKM was probably the best machine in the skies over Zhuhai. It was planned to deliver only five of these aircraft to the Russian armed forces this year. In recent times, however, the gap between what is produced and what Moscow is willing to offer Beijing is narrowing.
Here is a device for fifth-generation aircraft: the display that allows the pilot to track the target and simultaneously take the readings. It is exhibited for the first time.
[Vladimir Kavinskiy, chief designer if the Ramenskoye instrument-making design bureau, interviewed at the airshow] We don’t yet have these devices in Russia. They are at the design stage and have only passed factory tests. We are willing to offer them to China, including for the purpose of upgrading the aircraft already supplied.
[Correspondent] The displays, the fifth-generation engine that China has ordered, another engine for a Chinese aircraft, which is tested only in China and not in Russia – all these are here at the airshow.
Since the Russian defence industry is to a large extent being kept up by the Chinese, there is no other option but to offer them the most up-to-date products.
[Passage omitted: China’s own surface-to-surface missile system exhibited at the airshow aroused a lot of interest from Taiwan]
Before, China was willing to buy large quantities of old and tested weapons. The conflicts in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan have demonstrated the importance of high-precision armaments. So now Beijing only wants to buy the most up-to-date ones.
Russian participants believe China is some five years behind them. China, however, provides funding constantly for its military research, while Russia hasn’t enough funds even to start series production of its own designs.
Source: NTV Mir, Moscow, in Russian 1600 gmt 8 Nov 04
star49Really? Care to enlighten us on this matter? :rolleyes:
why? its so obvious. Is India willing to import 250 GE F404 engines along with 250 imported radar sets to make it Indiangenous. And why bother importing things for LCA when superior Mirage is available much earlier with greater payload and hard points.
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