why would china need to buy any weapons in a couple of years? Even now, the only place they need to import is large transport planes and carrier fighters. Chinese market is far from saturated, it is still getting a large amount of 4th generation fighters and new ships every year. Russians are not getting orders, because the proposed exports are not meeting the requirements, that’s all.

Or Russia products are now far expensive for Chinese requirements. adding J-10 in 21st century is the same as making J-7 in 80s.
Every export project is now un profitable for Russian unless it is backed by Strategic natural resources.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/12/business/worldbusiness/12nuclear.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Mr. Shmatko said in the interview in his office that the $1 billion project no longer even appeared profitable to the Russians and his company, because of rising prices for stainless steel and a shortage of skilled labor in the nuclear industry. He suggested that it was a drag rather than a benefit for Russia’s nuclear business

see, another example of Russian trying to get China to pay up for its projects. Do you think China is so stupid that it’s going to build civilian aircrafts with the Russians?

So China want to import Boeing/Airbus for next 50 years? and with that expensive spare parts supply chain.

that was back in 2002 when they actually needed the Russians.

I have read a Pinkov. that Chine simply does not have more pilots for advance aircraft so highly unlikely airforce size will increase.

spare engine? What the heck are you talking about? If J-11 doesn’t use WS-10A, it’s not J-11B. The definition of J-11B is that it uses only domestic suppliers.

this engine performance thing is very doubtful. China still importing engines for L-15. u can basically modify engine for trainer from WS-10 in less than two years. See the AL-55 connection to 117S.

If ask Putin to choose between American or Chinese. I will say he hate the American more. To beat the American and preventing the spread of US influence in Central Asia. Russia alone is impossible to accomplish that!
China has a veto power in UN plus plenty of loan for Russia. With US missile shield threatening Russia,getting into a row with Chinese over such small incident is not wise. What Russia needs now is forging a strong aillance with China.

ur mistaken in this. Russia does not need China to control central asia. Central asia interests algin with Russia just because of natural resources pricing, supply routes to Europe and millions of workers working in much better pay in Russia. and offcourse strong hand of russia in protecting against islamic terroists.
and Russia does not have business interest clash with America. They only have problem with small EU countries on ethinic basis.

http://mdb.cast.ru/mdb/2-2007/item1/item1/
Louis Gallois, the new co-CEO of the European concern, is known for his antipathy against Russians, a characteristic generally inherent in French Protestants. Russia remembers well that it was Gallois who played a key role in removing Russian companies from the ATR project.
The situation in Russia also changed. A diversification of the economy and reorientation from a reliance on raw materials was declared at the political level. The state started paying close attention to industrial policy in several machine-building sectors, including aviation. Consolidation of the aviation industry intensified in 2006. The state decided to launch and partly finance large-scale national projects from the budget: the SSJ‑100 regional jet, the MS‑21 short- and medium-range aircraft and the PS‑12 engine.

Russia is the same way or do you think all that help from Boeing on the RRJ isnt going to come back to kick the American’s in the ass when Russia starts building wide body jets again? Orders for the “failed” Il-96-300’s and 400’s are up a lot this year (20 airframes on order now) and the Tu-204 isnt doing that badly either again. This will encourage them to try a larger design if the RRJ sells even remotely well.

Boeing relationship with Russia is based on strict give and take. and RRJ will first effect Bombardier/Embarer type firms to go under. EADS will be in deep trouble if MS-21 got successful as A-320 is there only cash cow with no replacement in horizon. Boeing is pretty much safe with 787 Dream liner even though alot of it is made outside.
Chinese firms simply cannot provide high paid jobs to Russians nor any Scientific knowledge to Russian high tech industries. Thanks to Global warming Russia will be in postion to supply Water to Southern countries

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060811/52529060.html
Mullaly said he had joined the company 37 years ago and had worked to design all Boeing models, except the 707.

He said Boeing had been his dream because it was cooperating with international companies, and he wanted to work with Russia’s best aircraft building companies.
Mullaly said his company invested heavily in Russia’s high-tech sectors, including titanium production and aerospace industry, and 2,000 Russian engineers were helping to design Boeing airliners.

He said Boeing would buy materials worth $18 billion in the long-term under the Vsmpo-Avisma deal

.

What the heck are you talking about? What kind of economical or military reprisal can they take? What, they are going to stop supplying China oil? They are not supplying that much to begin with. As for military, you really think the Russian air force and navy with the 10 hours of training they get per year can actually defeat China conventionally?

10 hrs of Flight training? Just look at Transport fleet. U will get the idea.
Russia when send half Chinese contingent to Olympics can still get the same number of medals without external coaches and with far less money. Capitlaist Russia with money is totally another kind of power.

bottom line:
– Sukhoi made plenty of money off China
– now China no longer needs Sukhoi
– Russia is not supplying anything that fits the requirement of J-11B.
– Why would China buy these below par subsystems just to satisfy Russia.

Sukhoi would only be happy if China buys second rate Russian made fighters and RRJ for the next 20 years. It is not going to happen!

China will need Sukhoi/Russia when next development cycle comes just like China needs German cars. I agree with one point. Sukhoi has made plenty of money in China. that Sukhoi SSJ was started with that extra money despite Sukhoi have no Civillian experiance.
so they are not going to raise the issue royalty issue even if China export Sukhoi clones.

Garry wrote:The Su-30MKI had foreign parts because the parts offered… ie cleared for export by the Russians did not meet the needs of the Indians.

This is wrong! The fact is that Russia simply didnt have comparable items at the time, either internally or for export, both.
It has just developed a RLG INS that too with French help. At the time of the MKI, it didnt have a proper LDP cum CCD/FLIR as the Litening, or integrated processors of the ability to crunch sufficient numbers for the Bars, or other items such as display map generators, advanced modular RHAWS built with 1553B interface or MFDs and even HUDs. The Russians didnt have a modern deception jammer either, they just displayed one relatively recently. There are many other items in the MKI which were sourced from third countries because Russia itself didnt have these items.
Russia has but recently developed a Su967 comparable HUD which is being used for the MiG-29 K program, but it bears remarking that the INS is still French, the HMD is French, and the RWR/ Offensive jammer are Indian. Even the Mission computer used on the MiG-29 K is a generation behind those developed by India for its follow on aircraft projects.

In fact India would have preferred to source these items from russia itself, third party sourcing increases complexity, timelines and cost. But the russians didnt have comparable items.

Ur wrong on this one. Russia Advance stuff is more expensive than Israeli/French because of lack of automated production untill this point. Su-34 Aviation complex is full 5th generation at that is 2004 standard but they only have two fighters so it is alot expensive. Thales is cheaper because they have large revenues from Civillian side. see the RRJ contracts based on risk factors.
India sourced outside because it was Cheaper. and that RSK MIG Statement to Flight global.

The article does not mention that any Super Hornets shall be delivered.. :confused:

I am only referring to MKM. The first aircrat took 4 years and the rest within one year.

After first aircraft delivery the rest are with in a year. so it means they were waiting for electronic components development.

http://www.vpk-news.ru/article.asp?pr_sign=archive.2007.187.articles.geopolitics_02

THE FIRST PAIR < OF DRY > PERSONALLY WAS ACCEPTED AS THE CENTRAL BOARD OF ROYAL VVS OF MALAYSIA

In Irkutsk took place the transfer of the first Su-30MKM VVS of Malaysia on the contract of 2003, which became important stage in the expansion the “world geography” of the use of aircraft of model “sou”. Furthermore, Malaysian version – one additional step forward on an improvement in the base aircraft – Indian Su-30MKI, whose first deliveries began in 2002.
First on the ceremony of transfer came out the deputy of the general director OF FGUP “rosoboroneksport” Victor komardin, who noted that supply agreement of 18 multipurpose destroyers with the cost of 910 mln. dollars. Russia won in the sharp fight. After several years of the comparative analysis of Russian proposal with the American on F/a-18e/f Super Hornet the customer preferred the first. “Malaysia carries out the policy of the diversification of purchases; therefore we work in the sharp competitive activity, did not begin to hide Victor komardin. – to indicate that we will reach new successes, until it is premature. But we have hope, that the usable contract on Su-30MKM will not become the latter “.

By important factor in favor Su-30MK for Malaysia became the order of such machines the five additional countries, while Super Hornet is used only U.S. NAVY. For Malaysia important were the proposed conditions on the all-out support of aircraft in the operation, and also additional “glasses”, which the country obtained with the selection of the supplier of destroyers. “within the framework of the offset part of the Malaysian contract is provided creation for the territory of the country- customer of service center for Russian aviation engineering, and also the assistance in the implementation of national space program. Already in autumn present year the first Malaysian cosmonaut together with participants in the 16th expedition will visit international space station “, reported the deputy Director-General OF FGUP” Of rosoboroneksport “.

In accordance with the contract Russian side must build service and training centers together with the Malaysian partners. They will function as joint enterprises. Two corresponding additions to the contract were signed during April of present year. “idea is such: service center must be finished after the warranty periods of the first party of aircraft will end. We calculate, that in yr this center will begin to work “, explained Victor komardin. From the Russian side in the project participate FGUP “rosoboroneksport” and AKHK of “dry”, with the Malaysian – firm High Tech Padu. They together will create the training center, whose specialists will study training personnel of royal VVS.

Procedure of the “spiritual inspection” of aircraft (in the center – by central board of royal VVS of Malaysia Azizan Of ariffin).
Photos Of Vladimir KARNOZOVA

In the case of the successful realization of project Su-30MKM “rosoboroneksport” it can obtain new large contracts. Victor komardin shared with journalists with the plans of expansion VTS between Russia and Malaysia: “on the Malaysian market we move eight it is specific different technology, including for ground forces, NAVY and the Air Force. Among them are air defense weapons, the systems of salvo fire, armored carriers, high-speed launches of small tonnage, weapon for the special-purpose troops. We also sell equipment for the modernization of tanks, we are occupied by the advance of helicopters and trainer aircraft “.

For the Russian salesmen and the producers of weapon being promising seemed the words, said by the General commanding of royal VVS The azizanom Ariffinom: “we are contented by the motion of execution of the contract on Su-30MKM. True, this cost us large money. But, it is obvious, that the new aircraft is well thought out and it is wonderfully prepared. And today we with the pride declare: Malaysia became one additional member of the club of users Su-30. Now, as a minimum, we can go together with Russia, India and some other countries of the peace, to which it had luck to secure aircraft of this type “. A question of correspondent “VPK”, why Malaysia selected Su-30MKM, by central board it answered as follows: “this aircraft of multipurpose. It can conduct air battle and deliver impacts on ground-based and waterborne targets, and for this small country as Malaysia, such universal aircraft are necessary. We simply cannot be expended separately on the fighter-interceptors and separately to the impact aircraft. This would be is too expensively, it is simply ruinous “.

To customer to the selection were proposed both base versions Su-30MK – “Indian”, gathered in Irkutsk, and “Chinese”, made in Komsomol’sk-on- Amur. In the course of personal encounter in 2002 the then prime minister of Malaysia Makhatkhir Of mokhammad requested Vladimir Putin to create for the Malaysian armed forces the special version of aircraft on the basis of Indian version. So to the light appeared new version Su-30 with the index “modernized, commercial, Malaysian”. The corresponding contract was signed on 19 May, 2003.

The chief designer of aircraft Aleksandr Barkovsky described to the correspondent OF “VPK” how the modification OF “MKM” it differs herself from “MKI”: by the content of onboard equipment with the retention of glider, engines with the system of the thrust vector control and digital system of the flight control. In this case Malaysian version – is even more “moved”. A number of fundamental improvements is introduced in it. Visually are separated “crests” nearer to the nose from the cockpit canopy. They “issue” the presence on board the system of the state identification of French production, which demanded the Malaysian servicemen. But under the forward fuselage appeared the additional fairings, in which were placed the sensors of firm Avitronics (REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA) warning system about the laser irradiation and the approximation of rockets. Furthermore, on Su-30MKM established onboard system of the output of oxygen of the Russian firm “star” of Gaius Severin increased.

As a whole, if we compare with “MKI”, the share of Russian and French equipment on “MKM” increased. Instead of the Indian computer, which works in the reserve control loop of aircraft, was placed Russian, analogous to basic. Israeli indicator on the frontal glass (ILS) yielded the place for French, firms Thales. On the external suspension instead of the analogous Israeli equipment Su-30MKM it can bear the French containers: the illumination of purpose by the laser beam LDP Damocles and forward view Thales NAVFLIR. It is considered that these changes will significantly increase the reliability of aircraft, since with the selection of komplektatorov the Malaysian side was guided, first of all, by questions of technical perfection, but not by political reasons.

Resource indices on Su-30MKM completely correspond to those that they are prescribed to the Indian aircraft. Thus, the resource of glider assigned – 6000 is hour even 25 years (innovation repair after 1500 it is hour or 10 years), engines – 2000 it is hour (overhaul after first thousand). These are the very high numbers, compared with the best indices for the newest western destroyers. “the operating times, made with the creation Su-30MKI and Su-30MKM, go into the intellectual reserve along the aircraft of the following types. Especially it would be desirable to note that invaluable experience, which cannot be “learned” and foreseen on the mastery of international cooperation with the creation of the new versions of aircraft, which was for the first time made in the machines of family Su-30MKI/MKM/MKA “, asserts Aleksandr Barkovsky.

“in accordance with the contract in this year we must place to Malaysia 12 aircraft, enters into the conversation the President OF NPK” Tyuey irkut “Oleg demchenko. – during May are transmitted two aircraft, during June to them four, will be added, and at the end of the year – rest six “. The portion of Malaysian contract in the production schedule NPK “Irkut” 2007 it composes 50%. “in all, taking into account the program of license production Su-30MKI with India, are entered into a contract 200 aircraft complete sets. Irkutsk aircraft plant is loaded completely up to 2012. In the times of the Soviet Union IAZ made 24 training “dual-control aircraft” Su-27UB per year. Now we make 32-33 aircraft yearly “, summed up Oleg demchenko.