MalandroBut think about it, you buy 10 used F-18s, which have have used, and will in the future heavy maintenance and overhauls since as older they get the more expensive they will become to operate. Not only that, but buying used F-18C/Ds will probably also require upgrades, where Brazil will want to upgrade them with Israeli avinics and whatever, which will be quite a lot. Yet buying the same ammount of fewer Flankers will give you much better capabilities and it will not be so much more expensive than buying used fighters.
Besides, I highly doubt US will give those F-18s for free, they will cost at least 8mn/aircraft, plus a few upgrades and stuff and there comes 15mn/aircraft. Throughout it’s service life, it will be as expensive to operate for same ammount of time as a Flanker would, yet would give Brazil much less capability.
Hmmm didnt though on the maintenance thing . But lets see if we buy 12 F18 and upgrade then we will spend around 144 million , plus weapons maybe itll reach 150 millions . So there is still 550 millions ( 700 -150 = 550 ) . With this money and putting it to be invested ( lets say we get 10% of interest rates per year at least ) I think this money would be enough for futures maintenances costs . And US ( coincidence or not ) have declared they would sell us used F16s also even if we upgrade then as well as giving as AMRAAMS and allowing smart weapons on it if my memory is not mistaken . Since F18 and 16 are on the same class… Lets see 12 planes with US$25000
per hour of flight cost( including other costs for being an old fighter ) . I dont know how much hours a pilot must fly to gets proficient but lets say that per month they have to fly 30 hours . So 30 x 25000 x 12 x12 ( months of a year ) = 108 million of dollars per year ( but put minus 50 because of the 10% of interest over the 550 ) … So the 700 millon of dollars would be enough to keep then flying for 10 years. So if we use then for 20-25 years we would spend around 250 million of dollars ( minus the interest rates we would get from 550 ) not a bad idea dont you think? Byying Flankers and updating then is not a bad idea but they cant be used on our carrier .
Man! Am I disapointed at this cowardly government! TEN full years after this re-equipment program began and all we manage to do is to scrap the bid at this very advanced state! Shame on you Mr. Lula!
Yep but Im happy since it showed for some naive brazilian militarys unhappy with the previous governmnet military budgets that voted on Lula how unethic is this government and its party which prefered to buy first the presidential airplane as soon as they went in power. And if we compare the pervious president FHC extra budget militarys programs with this currently ita a cowardy!!! 😉
According to local press reports Thursday, the Brazilian government is considering the possibility of buying the jets without a tender.
Thats a possibility but I still prefer buying used planes for now . but if we buy new stuff it must be at my opinion a project as important as the AMX was for us . And we should buy at least 60 of it t supply our entire air force .
MalandroOficially I think it was the first time . But I support this decicion . I think its better to buy used planes since that witht the end of cold war there are plenty of then at a very good price . I think bying olds F18s and upgrading then as we are doing with our F5s would be a good idea since they could be used also on our carrier .
MalandroIve heard brazilian A4s will use the more modern MAA-1 Piranha , since its not a TVC missile and has a similar size to the AIM9 there would be no problem integrating this weapon . And I think a south-NATO would be a good idea since all latin american airforces have different necessities. While Brazil , for example , has a good striker , the AMX , Chile has good fighters like the F5 tiger 3 and so on .
MalandroThe real problem is that they didn’t actually have a democracy in the first place. If they did then the majority who are poor would have thrown them out. Big business and corrupt elements stay in power by various means of cheating and are supported by the great supporters of democracy (replace with money) like the US. When the poor people finally find a politician that will actually help them it is often too late and the foreign supporters of the former governments and the local and international big businesses label them as red. Once labelled red they lose all democratic support and can only turn to the communists or fade away. If they were the type to just fade away they wouldn’t have gone as far as they did so they turn to a new set of allies that lead them away from their ideal goals. Blame the communists if you like but the democrats should share the blame too.
I dont agree with this marxist view on the rich exploitation on the poors .Sure Venezuela’s society have failed combating poverty by voting on the wrong politicians , the poors fault is not as big as the rich one since they dont have access to proper education so they would valorisate more democracy and support the good intentioned politicians ( same case of Brazil ), but they have their share on the failure , and US has little if not any participation on it . Democracy is a good regim which is maximized with population’s participation as we see in US with lobbies for everything but if society is not interested in politics no doubt few lobbies , composed or not by rich people, will control the country’s economy .And if you watch these lobbies around the world they are not allways composed by rich people but from well organized and well informed ones ( many people blame the rich even without being marxist because wealth and proper education with the known about the importance with demacracy participation comes along! ) If the rich were allways the evil thing in a society we would not see rich and with good welfare contries running a capitalist regim like the Escandinavan ones or coming near to Venezuela , Chile which each day more approachs first world standarts thanks to other things their investment on education . Chavez from the beginning started blaiming the low popularity ones as a way to gain time in power and justify its failure . I fell very sorry for Venezuela and Argentina also for their poor politicians which I find worse even compared to the brazilian ones .At least they should have a minumum of worry with the poors and the country .
Just for curiosity to show how Venezuela have failed also BEFORE Chavez on economics, according to the Peen World Tables Mark 5.6 updated by Summers and Heston ( 1991 ) taken from a book from Charlers I. Jones from Stanford University whose title is portuguese is : Introduction to the Theory of Economic Grown , from 60 to the 90 Venezuela’s GDP have an average grown of – 0,5 % per year!!!
Malandromostly likely Mercosur will become a EU and Eurocorps equivalentsand Brazil and other countries will work out a common military as a common goverment besides a common currency
I think we are very veryyyyyyy far from the same currency, we would have to improve trade a lot between us . Amilitary uniuon would be more probable ( but still I think it would be difficult ) .
MalandroBrazil should step up and offer to buy the mothballed Italian AMXs, upgrade them to it´s own AMX-M standard and finally field a much delayed Anti-ship defence capability.
I agree , I think we have good chances on it since there are rumorurs the italians got impressed with our ALX on which the AMX-M is based . Or maybe they want to promote their aeronautical industry…
MalandroI know this is not a political forum but this is for those pseudo-marxists who see a populist like Chavez as a victim of the evil US :
A razão pela qual digo isso é que, pessoalmente, acredito que Chávez se alimenta da confrontação e nós sabemos que ele quer montar uma briga de David e Golias. Minha opinião é que o que podemos fazer de eficaz com ele é não ter medo falar quando ele suprimir liberdades e precisamos ser firmes nisso.” Ao mesmo tempo, Zoellick sinalizou possÃvel mudança de tática em relação ao lÃder venezuelano, dizendo que os EUA devem demonstrar disposição favorável em relação aos venezuelanos cuja frustração e ressentimento Chávez explora, “porque, francamente, os governos venezuelanos do passado, independente de partido, não serviram o povo.
which means :
The reason for which I say this is that, personally, I believe that Chávez if feeds of the confrontation and us we know that it wants to mount one fight of David and Golias. My opinion is that what we can make of efficient with it is not to have fear to speak when it to suppress freedoms and we need to be firm in this.” At the same time, Zoellick signaled possible change of tactics in relation to the Venezuelan leader, saying that U.S.A. must demonstrate favorable disposal in relation to the Venezuelans whose frustration and Chávez resentment explore, “because, frankly, the Venezuelan governments of the past, independent of party, had not served the people.
http://www.defesanet.com.br/intel/lulavenezuela7/
Translator :
http://babel.altavista.com/tr
P.S: As you can see previous governments at Venezuela have failed combating poverty as well as Chavez but the difference is that he puts the fault on the US as it had nothing better to do than to dominate and exploit latin americans using the popular exploration of the weak by the rich as marxists claim it exists mistured with a leader which has the people with him like the marxists dream one day a revolution would come with the fall of capitalism ( but we all saw wich failure came first… ) . But the weird thing is that Chavez’s supporters come blind on teir ideology and dont see his populists actions
MalandroIve heard they wanted to license the Ipanema ,a small single engine plane anyway I think 20 is a little number to get license production . All sales that I see involving such license involves number from 100 to above .
MalandroChavez only uses its speechs to blame US for its failure on the rule of the economy demonstrated with the rising of the poors in Venezuela . Thats my opinion
MalandroWith the new or the old camo one I think AMX are well fitted , looking at the beauty side
MalandroAbout the AMX-T , Venezuela may be waiting about the competation of brazilian upgrade on our AMXs but what keeps me unsure about that is that as they asked a different radar to be fitted on the AMX they choould have paid for its instalation .
Now about Chavez we have to be fair enough to recognize that before him its economics situatiuon was already bad ( well maybe now is worse ) with poverty rising . Thats the problem when a society dont worries about poverty , it gives room for a populist “friend of the poors” like Chavez , who takes advantages of the ignorance of poor people , take the power . Brazil polititcs whould learn with Venezuela and Argentine sitation to solve our huge poverty levels . At the 60’s Brazil was about to go on a wrong leftist way . We had a military coup to prevent this but bad things came with it like torture ( but the initial time of the dictatorship with Roberto Campos was a golden one ) . Thats the problem with dictarships , even if with good intentions its “security”on the power dont let it to adapt the economic to the new ideas , and thats happened with Brazil , with Chile having the luck to adapt it soon . Thats my opinion .
MalandroI think Chavez is a real great president, finally someone who helps the poor people.
So…. why is the number of poors increasing there?
MalandroOriginally posted by Primer55
Malandro,Below the last picture in Part I of the article it is written:
“Details of the last MAA-1 seeker makes it clear its similarities with Kentron and Rafael missiles, specially, the Python 3.”
BTW, the Python 3 is considered a 3rd generation missile.In 2nd part of the article, you can read:
“Considering the missile’s actual limits in its aerodynamic envelope (manouver capacity of its aerodinamyc surfaces and its internal components resistance to G forces) and its processor (its brain capacity), today, it can be considered an improved 3rd generation missile.”Srbin,
Yes, the MAA-1 is a bit shortlegged. Its 8km range is no match to the R-73’s 20 km range.Regards,
Primer
So what I never denied it was a 3rd generation one . Just that it has an advanced seeker . And I think it has a range of 5 km not 8
MalandroWell some brazilian military specialists would disagree with you . They claim ( and Im based on then ) the seeker is the same of the south african Darter ( we requested then from South Africa ) . Here is a good site describing it : http://www.infomarmb.hpg.ig.com.br/Piranha.htm
Non portuguese speaker should use babel 😀 : http://babelfish.altavista.com/
MalandroOriginally posted by A-29
Ecuatorian,Currently the missile used by FAB is the Python III, right now we are introducing the locally developed MAA-1 Piranha (similar to the Sidewinder versions L and M) and the Navy use the AIM-9H Sidewinder on its A-4s.
Regards,
😎
Well the indigenous Piranha is much more advanced than the Aim 9M . Its seeker uses the same technology of the AIM 9X or the MICA IR ( making it virtually immune to flares ) 🙂
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