Thanks Sabre. Looks as if your man is not the one. Wrong birth date and place and family. Needs to be 11.1.1894, Croydon. But it’s interesting to see the two same names! I’ll try the RAFM. My man was still in the RAF in 1921 it seems. Thanks for the offer to look further. Cheers
Well that is interesting. We have gone over and over this business, and now the same stories come out in Westminster. First the bones were found, and we offered to test them, then a second set was found, but Egyptian authorities couldn’t extract DNA, but it was said they were from two different people, then there was no second set, then someone decided that no tests had in fact been done. I got very mixed responses from the MoD and the British Embassy in Cairo. No-one seemed willing to answer my simple questions.
Now I read that the same story is coming back into fashion: “Rigorous DNA tests” were done but nothing found due to age (what was the age of the bones found – how was that determined?). It was initially said they were hundreds of years old. Where are the bones now? I am surprised and frustrated by this “official” announcement. And Dennis Coppings’ family must be even more frustrated than those of us who tried.
Thanks redhill. Any ideas about the rough uniforms? Just a hard day’s work? The three on the left seem to have very dark overalls.
I can’t access it either
I should have read it too, as I have it here!
And oddly a reference in “Le Petit Dauphiné” (that I don’t need to translate for you!)
ANGLETERRE
Un avion décolle et vole pendant 35 minutes privé de pilote IL VIENT S’ECRASER
CONTRE UN ARBRE PRES DE FOLKESTONE
Londres, 5 juin. — Un avion de tourisme, le « British Klemm Swallbw »
s’est écrasé; sur un arbre, hier soir, à Hawkinge, près de foikestone.
Les témoins de l’accident se précipitè-rent au secours du pilote, mais quelle
ne fut pas leur stupeur lorsqu’ils constatèrent que l’avion était vide. L’aérodrome de Lympne ‘ut prévenu
et on apprit que le petit monoplan s’était envolé tout seul. Un mécanicien avait mis l’hélice en mouvement sans prendre la précaution de placer des cales sur les deux roues; le frein se desserra et le « SwalloW » s’envola, s’éleva jusqu’à 300 mètres et survola les-villes de Hythe, Lympne et Folkestone. – .
,Et 35 minutes après son décollage, l’avion descendit et vint se briser contre
l’arbre qui devait mettre un terme ‘à course aventureuse. Des aviateurs militaires qui avaient
vu l’avion survolant leur camp avalent admiré la marche régulière de’l’appareil
et s’étaient récriés sur l’habileté de son pilote qu’ils croyaient une « vieill
Sorry the copy peters out at this stage but you can find it at
http://www.memoireetactualite.org/presse/38PETITDAUPH/PDF/1937/38PETITDAUPH-19370606-P-0001.pdf
I haven’t found an identity, but Wikipedia “Lympne Airport” gives two other references, one to the Times:
On 4 June 1937,[107] a British Klemm Swallow made a pilot-less take-off from Lympne and flew for some 35 minutes before crashing into a tree.[108] Its resting place was 200 yd (180 m) from RAF Hawkinge.[107]
That quote was attributed to David Learmount after the Shoreham Hunter crash.
“Airshows are the biggest spectator sport in this country – more people go live to airshows than go to football,” he said (quoted in: http://news.sky.com/story/1540230/airshow-crash-was-horrifically-unlikely)
I haven’t found any real data to back up or disprove this statement.
I don’t know if he is still active, but Google gives this address and number: Effretikon, Switzerland • Telephone: +41 79 282 7905 .
Thanks Andy. I wish we could get back to this sad story.
Maybe I should add a few comments about my involvement with a possible recovery of Flight Sgt Copping’s remains.
I have been away for a couple of weeks without access to this thread, and come to it today some ten pages later!
I do not need to go through all the details of what we attempted to do soon after the discovery of the P-40 wreck (by the Italians or by the Poles has never been clear to me). Suffice it to say that I was able to organise DNA and histological testing of the bones by the forensic department of my university, an offer that we have never been able to take up, as the bones were not recovered by the Italians, but left “in situ”, according to “qattara” himself. He did, as stated a couple of pages back, send me photographs of the bones confidentially, from which I am able to state categorically that they were human (I am an anatomist). I exchanged a lot a correspondence with the MoD, the Cairo Embassy, and their Defence Attachés, from which emerged the story of a second set of bones being discovered and tested in a Cairo forensic laboratory. Although I have contacts in Cairo university I was never able to get an answer from my forensic colleagues, but the story emerged that the bones were unsuitable for DNA extraction, which I doubt from my previous experience. One should not forget that DNA is not the only test that could be of use here: relatively simple histology and microscopic examination can give information about, for example, the age of a bone, to try to eliminate any bones from the wrong historical period (that are not uncommon in the desert, as I know from personal experience).The Italian team, via qattara, have also said that “the bones” disappeared from the site.
I have never understood how the Italian team found the bones. Having spent quite a bit of time in the deserts of the UAE and Oman I would agree that such a search (and such a find) are hard to imagine.
So, to my great regret we got no further with trying to find Dennis Copping, nor even examine the bones that might be his. His family had agreed to our examination of any remains, and it was sad to disappoint them. Indeed, our offer still stands, if ever we find the bones, which like the P-40, now seem lost again.
I have read this new thread and am following it. We have not forgotten the Normandy Lancaster scandal.
That’s true, Lynx. That’s what the priority seems to be: «Vorerst geht es darum, die Sammlung in ihrem ganzen Umfang zusammenzuhalten» (“The priority is to keep the collection in one piece”). But he does say money is short and he is looking for a solution, without saying exactly what that might be. Even to get one or more airborne again. He’s looking for partners or sponsors.
“würde er die Sammlung notfalls sogar verkaufen” : “he would even sell the collection if necessary”
Yes, quite a find. I’ve emailed the owner to try to find out more. Anyone seriously interested?
And from me Moggy. Happy memories of a visit to HMS Belfast (and other odds and ends). But how can I steer clear of French women?