André Blattmann, head of the army: the decision of the Bundesrat is right. He says the leadership of the army backs the Gripen. He makes the point that procurement of new fighters should not be a financial burden for other parts of Swiss defence.
Naturally.
Markus Gygax, head of the air force: Gripen fulfils air force requirements.
Says the guy who signed a report saying the Gripen didn’t meet the requirements. Don’t you think that he’s just singing the line of the defense minister who was caught with his pants down?
Ulrich Appenzeller, head of procurement: the evaluation was conducted professionally.
Yes it was maybe, but nobody gave a damn about it when it came to selection time 😀
Eurofighter : >$10,000 – $15,000+ per flying hour?
Rafale: >$10,000 per flying hour?
Gripen: <$5,000 per flying hour?
What would suit Switzerland best?
I don’t trust the gripen figures of cost per flying hours. Such a difference is really fishy if you ask me.
Nic
The Swiss have selected a great fighter, which meets their needs well…
I think you may want to read the evaluation report again.
By the way I would like to ask to the people who point out that since the F5s are enough for air policing, then the Gripen would be good enough too, why not just keep the F5s? By that logic they would be well inspired to buy chinese FC-1, or ching kuo, as they probably can do all a F5 can 😎
Or hum well… F16s
Nic
Something wrong here:
If this was the report used to decide which aircraft best suited requirements, how did the Defence Minister not know about it?
Awesome. Maurer confirms that the report is true, and that he didn’t even bother reading it. We all know here that a most fighter competitions are BS, but it’s nice to see a politician confirming.
Nic
Perhaps the hidden pages was fishy enough to ruin the credibility ?
Or perhaps they didn’t want to disclose anything confidential?
Nic
Slightly off topic, but the false flagging begins: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/13/us-israel-security-embassies-idUSTRE81C0QZ20120213
Mark my words. Or rather, mark Wesley Clark’s words.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DJ–Z3lvaQ&feature=related
Nic
Not a chance F35 is going to be that cheap. USAF won’t buy more than 800 instead of the 1700 planned. Economies of scale won’t work as they were supposed to do. And I’m not even talking about the other customers.
Nic
Like (allegedly) Dassault in Switzerland then?
I don’t disagree. But I’d say the situation is pretty different as toocool said. Besides it’s been denied that Dassault made another offer has it not? Last but not least: IF Dassault has made another offer, then maybe it was allowed by bagging the Indian contract which allowed them to make a better offer thanks to economies of scale?
Nic
If Eurofighter didn’t bother to make a good offer in the first place, then I don’t think they deserve being allowed to reconsider their offer, especially when it was so clear that being L1 was the sole selection critera.
Not only it shows that they tried to milk the indians instead of making a good offer, but it also shows that they don’t even respect the indian decisions, which is pretty condescending if you ask me.
Eurofighter should STFU and pay some bribes in the middle east to sell more planes.
Nic
you guys agree so stop arguing :confused:
nic
@ PhilipG
the two seat naval rafale is developed, it is the Rafale N ( there was one built if my memory serves well)
it’s just that the MN decided to order single seaters only as they considered it suited their needs better
I’ve never heard about a Rafale N being built, I think you are mistaken but would love to be proven wrong with a picture 😀
Nic
My theory: maybe it had to do with the UN vote on Syria , maybe the government(s) were expecting whatevere resolution to pass and then probably bombs starting to rain down on Syria, but since China and Russian vetoed it ( oh those evil chicoms and russkies ;)), no boom-bada-boom happening yet. Very strange coincidence innit?
I agree 100%
Syria has to fall before they get to Iran.
Nic
Good grief. It’s getting like the Above Top Secret conspiracy forum on here. Join the rest of the nuts over on the discussion!
‘WWIII – USS Enterprise, a dying Legend to be the FALSE FLAG !! ??’
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread801646/pg1
Some people will believe anything :rolleyes:
Well it could be that the Navy wanted to keep USS Enterprise for a few years more, by sending USS Enterprise and spending money on it and ‘missing’ the retiring date.
However there will be a false flag, be it Enterprise or whatever other reason they find.
Nic
Thanks for posting that Brookings article “Which Path to Persia”. Interesting though it is, it can hardly be offered as an example of what you called “some 2009 docs that call for an Iranian attack on the US in order to be able to start the needed war.”
Well I disagree insofar as some part of the article clearly states what kind of iranian provocation would be required SHOULD the US decide to go to war (for the reasons mentioned in the document (iranian nuclear program), or for other (and obviously hidden) motives). Such provocations have been used to declare war since the beginning of times. The nazis staged a polish attack as justification to invade Poland, there’s the Tonkin gulf “incident”, there are the famous rumors that the US let pearl harbor happen to justify the war to the public audience, there’s the Lusitania episode (how smart is it to carry war supply on a so called civilian neutral ship), and there’s that debate about 9/11.
It calls for nothing, but is simply an examination of what its compilers see as nine options which, in their own words “Most readers are likely to conclude… riddled with costs, complications, risks, and low likelihoods of success.”
It clearly states that a bloody provocation is necessary.
This is one of the things that defence academics do – study potential military options and their inherent problems and chances of success. Personally, I’ve modelled a few ‘hairy’ scenarios in my younger days, but would hate anyone to think that I was seriously advocating them.
Well I’m sure you weren’t advocating anything. But those documents are made for a reason, and those who use them don’t always do it with the best intentions.
Nic
Too bad Iraq didn’t order Mirage 4000s, it would have made short work of Iran’s tomcats :diablo:
May be this has something to do with it?
My guess – US elections are near – the current bubs ain’t exactly popular, create a diversion. Nic might not be too far from the truth.
Here you are:
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/rc/papers/2009/06_iran_strategy/06_iran_strategy.pdf
Brookings insitution is one of the biggest “think tanks” in the US. It’s former president is a former Bill Clindon deputy foreign minister. These are people very close to the power circles in Washington. There’s a whole chapter in this document talking about how to start a war, and which kind of provocation would be necessary.
Nic