we should try to keep this conversation civil. I can see a flame coming. Although I am quite skeptical (to say the least) about jackonicko’s claims in general, it is still possible to discuss with him normaly which isn’t the case with Fonk.
I hope that next posters will be able to “defuse” this situation.

No it isn’t possible to “discuss” with him either. Flat out lies get tiresome after a while. And there has been a bunch in this very thread and in the previous one. For instance when he says that lordassap was speaking about T1 block 5 typhoons, when it is clearly not the case. But who is going to go back 5 pages to check it out? Jack tried and lost.

lordassap is just as biased, he behaves like a prick, but he always speak with facts and links to make his points, which are possible to refute or confirm. Quite often I don’t read the same thing from the same link lordassap provided (as for instance whether M1.5 is a theoretical airframe limit OR a max supercruise speed the Typhoon reached empty with only partial fuel). Lake however doesn’t ever produce a fact. Quite the opposite actually. He goes off on rumours, comparing apples and oranges, and occasionally plain lying. There is just no way to talk to discuss with such people, and the bull**** that he is spoonfeeding us has been the same for years now. He’s got an agenda plain and simple.

In my opinion, if lordassap was banned (and he shouldn’t be as long as he doesn’t break the forum rules) jononickolake should be banned just the same. In my opinion plain lying is worse than behaving like a prick.

Nic

20% ground attack + 20% Recon = 40%, which is only marginally less important than the 50% attributed for AtoA.

So no I’m sorry they are not looking for an air policing plane (unless the complains of those who live near airports have made the swiss completely change their minds).

Nic

Regarding air-to-air weapons, what A2A weapons are integrated on the Rafale or are in the process of being integrated? When I look at the Dassault website, I see only Mica. Looking elsewhere on the internet I see that Magic is also integrated and Meteor will be integrated.

Rafale F1 used the Mica EM and the Magic II as the IR dogfight weapon. Then with F2 standard the Mica IR was ready, and it replaced the Magic II for the self protection weapon, as the Mica can be used for WVR off boresight dogfights or in BVR at medium range.

The Mica IR and Mica EM will be complemented by the Meteor when the AdlA gets the money to purchase them I suppose.

Oh and there is always the gun.

Nic

Maybe the swiss have realised that you won’t win a war with just fighters. You need to be able to strike ground forces, enemy airbases, C&C and so on. And of course you need good recon assets.

Unless of course the Swiss don’t plan on being attacked and require planes for air policing alone, which means they wouldn’t probably even need to replace their F5s, as the F18 would probably be good enough for the job.

If they need a light ac for airpolicing then the Gripen would definately do. But I don’t think it’s exactly what they are looking for. They already have their AtoA optimised Hornets for that job, and the other type is obviously going to undertake the other jobs of ground attack and recon even if as a secondary mission. So the Rafale, with Scalp, AASM, GBUs and the new recon pod will ultimately offer a very flexible weapon system, and will already be ready and delivered to the French AdlA when the Swiss order their planes! While the F18s can continue with the air policing.

That’s probably why the Swiss needed more flights from the Rafale. Many of it’s developments were already on board, and not on the tranche 3 drawing boards ^^

But if that was the case, why not produce this version?
The Rafale, is currently underpowered and could use all the extra thrust it could get! I dont think it is so simple.

EDIT
What they clearly say is that they CAN produce a 9t M88, but WONT.
Probably the cost will go sky-hi, or they need 2-5 more years for development, or some technology import from the other side of the Atlantic, or bypass ratio might increase or all the above.

Apparently you’re the only one who thinks the Rafale needs more power that badly, because the AdlA sure doesn’t seem to think so. So they decided to go for better fuel consumption and longer engine life instead of going for more power.

The fact that the AdlA doesn’t want to buy the 9T version does NOT mean that an export customer can’t order a Rafale with 2x 9T engines.

Nic