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Nicolas10

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October 29, 2015 at 4:34 pm in reply to: Typhoon vs. Rafale. #2162043

Nicolas10
Participant

None of the above. Heck, even the ECO demonstrator isn’t quite there yet.

http://www.snecma.com/file/download/fiche_m88_2011_ang_hd.pdf
http://www.mtu.de/fileadmin/EN/2_Engines/2_Military_Aircraft_Engines/1_Fighter_Aircraft/EJ200/ProductLeaflet_EJ200.pdf

EJ200 | Snecma M88-2/4E | M88 ECO (demonstrator)
Thrust – 90kN | 75kN | 90kN
T/W – 9.31 | 8.5 | 9.31
SFC – 0.74–0.81 lb/lbf.hr | 0.8 lb/lbf.hr | 0.8lb/lbf.hr
PR – 26.0 | 24.5 | 27
BPR – 0.4 | 0.3 | 0.3
Air Flow Rate – 75-77kg/s | 65kg/s | 72kg/s
Inlet Diameter – 700mm | 699mm | 787mm

There is much more to it than those static numbers. You aren’t informed enough

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that with 20% more mass flow rate, an EJ200 can produce the same thrust with a lower jet velocity and a lower core temperature, and more bypass flow sure helps too. Not to mention that it’s also burning less fuel.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that with a heavier fighter with heavier engines you need more power to move your jet to the same velocity. Burning more fuel in the process, since the SFC of the EJ200 (0.81 whatever) is already superior to that of the Rafale (0.80), at least at sea level.

The crux of the matter, however, is that the engines use a different philosophy, which come from different concepts of employments. For instance ability to sustain long low level flights, maintainability of the engine, service life etc…

I couldn’t even find a comparison of the service life of the engines or MTBO. Feel free to share if you have those.

Nic

October 29, 2015 at 4:16 pm in reply to: Typhoon vs. Rafale. #2162057

Nicolas10
Participant

Which you never linked directly because it’s factually inaccurate, making your claim that it’s from a leading defence journalist somewhat dubious.

http://www.lepoint.fr/editos-du-point/jean-guisnel/premier-bilan-des-frappes-aeriennes-francaises-en-libye-04-04-2011-1315093_53.php

I’m no defence journalist but even I know that’s wrong and even a child could have checked wikipedia.

Actually the french wiki gives the S125 with 5V24 missile a range of 15km.
It gives 5V27 with a 25km range, which is less than half the range of 250kg AASM from high altitude.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-125

Your ability to read what you want to read in anything is astonishing.

Nic

October 29, 2015 at 3:53 pm in reply to: Typhoon vs. Rafale. #2162098

Nicolas10
Participant

So why exactly is the EJ200 better than the M88?

More powerful? Sure since it’s of comparable technology level, but it’s also bigger.
A bit more T/W ratio on static test at zero altitude? Sure but what about medium or high alt? How does one know it’s better? Isn’t it compensated by some other characteristics that don’t appear on the datasheet, like reduced IR signature, reduced consumption, better longevity etc… I don’t know but neither do you.

Rafale hasn’t been equipped with EJ200 because 1 it’s too big for it & 2 it doesn’t need it because it’s got a great engine that was developed for it.

What benefit would it take from using a scaled down EJ200, honestly?

Nic

October 29, 2015 at 3:41 pm in reply to: Typhoon vs. Rafale. #2162101

Nicolas10
Participant

The blog links to a news article but nevermind.

Anyway most of the soft targets & vehicles were bombed by french helicopters anyways. 425 HOT missiles were fired by Gazelles, and 13500 20/30mm rounds & 1618 rockets were fired. 600 targets were attacked including 400 vehicles.

As I said that’s not a job even for Brimstone or PWIV. Those are too expensive.

Nic

October 29, 2015 at 3:13 pm in reply to: Sukhoi vs Mikoyan Gurevich: which was the better design bureau? #2162128

Nicolas10
Participant

“The radar is at least a generation behind the AN/APG-65…

Why are you bringing up AN/APG-65 comparison to reply to a post that was specifically mentioning AN/APG-66 & 63?

Nic

October 29, 2015 at 3:01 pm in reply to: Typhoon vs. Rafale. #2162134

Nicolas10
Participant

And you will find this is simply the official report and it doesn’t even mention the Rafale in connection with SEAD.

I didn’t even pick up (unlike others here) that it was just a rand study and no official report. Secondly I don’t give much credit to official reports anyway. Anything coming from the french government would be a bunch of lies anyway.

If it failed to engage and destroy an out-of-range SA-8 (range 15km, ceiling 12km), going up against an SA-2 (range 66km, ceiling 25-30km) with a functional radar would not be a good idea, especially not using a munition with 50km range.

This little piece of yours shows your bias against the french fighter. ’nuff said.

Nic

October 29, 2015 at 1:36 pm in reply to: Typhoon vs. Rafale. #2162199

Nicolas10
Participant

You will find that the blog post will link to two article for the most renowned military journalists in France, & that the first link was a journal from the company manufacturing AASM.

Nic

October 29, 2015 at 1:23 pm in reply to: Typhoon vs. Rafale. #2162206

Nicolas10
Participant

http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR600/RR676/RAND_RR676.pdf

Quoting the official report of operation odyssey dawn might not enlighten you all that much on what was going on during operation harmattan, but hey keep trying.

Nic

October 29, 2015 at 1:20 pm in reply to: Typhoon vs. Rafale. #2162208

Nicolas10
Participant

The goal is also to terminate all those bad guys hiding nearby. Beside you’re not wasting money if you destroy something that could cost you far more.

Oh and I thought we bombed Khadafi’s forces & not the bad guys.

October 29, 2015 at 1:13 pm in reply to: Typhoon vs. Rafale. #2162216

Nicolas10
Participant

At least one Rafale mission (2 aircrafts with 4 AASM each) consisted of destroying a SA2 side & command post.

http://www.safran-group.com/file/download/safr11_fr.pdf page 34

And maybe even an SA3 site?

http://rafalenews.blogspot.fr/2011/04/aasm-sead-capability-demonstrated.html

Nic

October 29, 2015 at 12:53 pm in reply to: Typhoon vs. Rafale. #2162226

Nicolas10
Participant

So how does Storm Shadow take out pickups, when it can’t be re-targeted in flight yet. Storm shadows were used on fixed targets and stationary targets like large SAM. In fact, according to the official report, all the SEAD was done by TLAMs from US and Royal Navy and Storm Shadows.

I was sarcastic. in both my posts. Maybe by the time the Typhoon was engaged it came to mostly plinking old BMPs & pickup trucks, but the Rafale got in the thick of things before any SEAD had been done by anyone.
The Rafale was involved in SEAD too (SCALP-EG) and attacked at least one SAM site with AASM.

Nic

October 29, 2015 at 12:35 pm in reply to: Typhoon vs. Rafale. #2162237

Nicolas10
Participant

You have mixed up Brimstone and Storm Shadow.

No I haven’t.

Mr. Aurel’s argument comparing Rafale & Typhoon is that since it only came down to plinking pickup trucks in Libya, both the Rafale & the Typhoon are equivalent in ground attack role since they both used LGBs to do so.

If pickup trucks is the only targets available, then why did France, & the UK send so many storm shadows/Scalps, and why did the US send so many TLAMs? Nevermind the fact that youtube videos of AASM strikes were mainly of air bases and other ammo depotsbases, which were probably defended by SAMs & AAA, unlike them pickup trucks.

Nevermind the fact that the Rafale went there for air interdiction & reconnaissance before the US even sent their waves of TLAM strikes, & that the Rafales conducted the first strikes before anything. How many weeks after that did the Typhoon operate?

If you are thinking it’s a waste of money to destroy pickup trucks with an AASM, I agree with you, but then again a Typhoon firing PWIV is also a waste of money. A Gazelle with HOT would be the perfect tool for it, or even a Tiger with 30 mm gun & rockets.

Nic

October 29, 2015 at 12:54 am in reply to: Sukhoi vs Mikoyan Gurevich: which was the better design bureau? #2162415

Nicolas10
Participant

Surely he meant AA-10, which is way enough to scare a AIM9 wielding F16.

Nic

October 29, 2015 at 12:43 am in reply to: Typhoon vs. Rafale. #2162461

Nicolas10
Participant

Unless you want to drop bloody expansive AASM’s on pickups and old BMP’s both carry in such a scenario 4 Paveways.

Makes you wonder why the US wasted so many TLAMs & why the RAF spend quite a few Strom Shadows on pickup trucks.

October 28, 2015 at 2:02 pm in reply to: Indonesia and Egypt: Pak-fa or J-20/J-31? #2162739

Nicolas10
Participant

I say buy Rafales and paint them with this camo!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/TNIAU_A4.JPG

(I guess it would look awesome on PAK-FA too)

Nic
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