External pods would add too much drag for the air to air configuration.
Meh… a bit more or a bit less won’t make an immense difference.
Nic
I suppose I should take some of the blame for introducing the can analogy into this discussion. You seem quite taken with it, even if confused.
Really? Rafale as a Veyron? With M1.8 max speed?
He said the Rafale would be the ferrari 458 & the F22 would be akin to the veryon.
Nic
Don’t forget that the Su24M2 could come with Kh31P & Kh59.
Good luck using whatever frigate or destroyer as a radar picket with an opponent equipped with Kh31P & various versions of Kh59 unless it’s a T45 or something.
It’s not the number of airframes that count, it’s the number and type of missiles you get along with it.
12 Su24 are way enough if you have what it takes to arm them.
Nic
Why the Rafale cost increased, is ultimately immaterial. What matters is that it did and that at FRP, the F-35A will be very competitive on acquisition cost with the Rafale.
Do you even know what FRP is? I bed you don’t, and I don’t either.
The primary factor influencing cost is the production rate not the the order book. Regardless of the Indian order, the Rafale’s production will stay steady at 11 units per year. No more. No less.
It was different when the Indian and/or Emirati orders were expected to boost the production rate. With the French MoD scaling back domestic orders, with exports expected to replace them, there’s no scope for new cost efficiencies owed to scale.
With an order of 85 frames, obviously the production rate increases. I was mentioning the 18 indian aircrafts as an extra boost to the production numbers. Ie, the FAF would still receive some, + the 18 indian ones meant that production rates would have to increase for another order by anyone else.
The FAF has to take deliveries at some point.
Nic
Its a big assumption you’re making vis a vis inflation. Defence inflation typically runs ahead of regular inflation. In addition, the later Rafale tranches will have more expensive kit added on – AESA radar, GaN Spectra, Scorpion HMD, Talios pod etc.
And IIRC recent figures put the Rafale cost over 85 million, or around 70 million minus VAT. That’s still about quarter or so less than the F-35A, but at FRP the F-35A should be able to beat that figure quite handily.
Extrapolating from the Swiss contract, for $6 billion you’d be able to get no more than 50 Gripen Es (if not much less). If the Rafale was in the same cost bracket as the Gripen E, it would probably have been the primarily competitor for the F-35A in European markets instead of the Gripen. Brazil would have been a lock as well, considering the ready availability of a carrier variant.
The Rafale cost increased because the production runs are ever more delayed. Contrary to the F35 numbers don’t increase but they were reduced to the minimum possible level. 85 birds is about 50% of the number of Rafales produced until now. If you add the 18 Rafales produced for India then you get a 64% increase, which would lower the unit cost considerably.
It always amazes me when F35 fans consider that the unit cost of the F35 will lower even when most operators say they won’t take as many as planned, yet if you add 64% more Rafales to the production run, you won’t get a lower unit cost.
That’s quite a stretch on common sense.
Nic
Thanks for the reply.
Yes of course, but that doesn’t mean the European taxpayers are paying for the bailout.Have a look at:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/02/us-eurozone-bailouts-idUSBRE9410CG20130502
ROFL so Germany, which probably paid the lion’s share of the 400 bn loans should be happy because they saved 10bn making new debt to sink money in a county that will never pay back.
High as a kite, as I said.
Nic
Care to enlighten me as to why?
Means you are high as a kite wrt european economics.
Nic
Visit this link.
http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/assistance_eu_ms/greek_loan_facility/index_en.htm
Click on the ‘+’ that heads ‘Overview of disbursements’.The EFSF has been providing the lion’s share of well over €240 billion Greece received since 2011.
This is utterly outrageous. Those *censored* bankers sink greece, and then somehow managed through that to sink the rest of the EU.
Nic
I’m only one who would like to see J-20 variant with larger delta wing and without canards? A bit like the original X-32.
With an F16XL type of wing it would be pretty neat.
Nic
Wouldn’t you want a small layer of metal hard enough to detonate the bomb, and make it waste its shaped charge in the layer of concrete beneath, then another layer of a few cm hard metal to stop the remaining of the shape charge?
Nic
Spain? Weeelllll . . . .since Spain has built a warship designed around the F-35B, I’d say that’s a fairly safe bet – & always has been.
Provided they can afford them. Scratch that, provided they can even afford to keep their ship operational at all.
Nic
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You forgot the radar transparent wooden frame.
Nic
For the budget of the Eurofighter Dassault would provide us with X-Wings. For the budget of the F35 I expect nothing less than the death star.
Nic
UK-Bahrain Base Deal Could Lead to Typhoon Sales
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20141213/DEFREG04/312130021/
lol, sarkozy tried that too. It didn’t work all that well for him.
Nic
So being the only multirole fighter with a VLO airframe, best available SA, world-wide support & upgrade network, and ease & low cost of upgrades had nothing to do with it?
:very_drunk:
Bang for the buck is horrendous, & it remains to be seen if SA is all that much better than competitors, whether WW support works (good luck to greece when they have to send their F35 to the upgrade shop in turkey), low cost of upgrades (haha low cost & F35 in the same sentence).
If all of that had been demonstrated you may have had a point, but it seems like you won’t have a point for years to come.
Nic