This thread needs some sound….
Video courtesy of Shane Wilton, thanks!
All tail draggers need the cg behind the main wheels to avoid tipping over but this has nothing to do with relationship between the cg and the aero centre for stable flight. I remember being told that aircraft normally had a downforce from the tailplane in order to maintain stability in pitch, but this would depend upon the static mounting of the fixed part as well as the elevator angle. Aircraft with the tailplane giving a lifting force would indeed be very sensitive on the control in pitch, and require continuous attention when flying. However, aircraft stability is a specialist subject about which I cannot speak with any particular authority.
You’re pretty close though. Any aircraft with a conventional configuration (wings forward, tail at the back) needs a downforce from the tailplane to create static stability. The amount of downforce varies with airspeed as the lift (even though its pointed downwards) is dependent on the speed of the air travelling over it. The second item which influences the amount of downforce is the deflection of the elevator as this changes the camber of the tailplane.
There is only one speed for which the elevator is exactly in line with the tailplane. Common sense dictates that this speed is the economic cruising speed of the aircraft as this configuration produces the least amount of drag from the tailplane. At any speed lower than this the elevator needs to be deflected upwards to keep the aircraft in the same attitude (see any landing photo). At any higher speed the elevator will be deflected downwards (see the photos of the high speed passes). Whether the aircraft is ‘trimmed’ at such a speed depends on whether the pilot took the trouble to use the elevator trim. When flying at a specific speed for a longer period of time you can use the trim to maintain the same elevator position (and thus stick position) without having to exert any force. With an aircraft which has a light stick force in pitch the pilot may not use the trim as often as with other types.
Your max economy speed is relatively low usually, therefore at an operational cruising speed (needing more fuel per unit of time but getting you there quicker) you’ll have an elevator which is deflected down a wee bit.
Back to the photos now!
Hi All,
My Father was on one of the first air tests/famils when the ‘Ten’ came to Brize Norton during the early 1960’s, he took this photo in the cockpit during his flight, if you look closely at the Mach meter, above the co-pilots left shoulder, you can just see the needle creeping over Mach 0.9![ATTACH=CONFIG]228100[/ATTACH]
Martyn
GYD
Great photo Martyn! From the BOAC manuals, Mmo for the VC10 was initially 0,886 but was later reduced to 0,866. Mne could have been somewhere around 0,9 then.
Great photo of G-AGRU at the Avia-Resto cafe! You can just make out G-AGRW behind it. This photo made me realise that they must have turned G-AGRU at some point as it didn’t have its tail pointing in that direction in some of the other photos I have.
It is good of you to consider reuniting the logbooks with G-AGRU, I’m sure that the team looking after her will appreciate this a lot!
Not 808 as written in one mag?
No, XR808 is slowly being taken apart in preparation for a road move to Cosford. ZD241 has had engines reinstalled, was run for the first time again on 31st March and on 1st May 2014 she moved again under her own power. This was a sedate trial run for the CWJ day:
It also looks like the full report isn’t out yet: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/2011/oswego_il.html
The full narrative of the preliminary report makes interesting reading though.
Wrong B-25. ‘Bedsheet Bomber’ (or what’s left of it 🙁 )is now at Booker.
Oops, my mistake, apologies!
The airframe is currently in Belgium where it is slowly being restored as far as I know, some info here: http://www.bamfbamrs.be/B25/B25-en.htm (move of the airframe and updates until 2010) and here http://www.bamf.be/ (update from July 2012)
Thank you! Was driving me crazy there… 🙂
Hmm, familiar shape but cannot get the name/type right. Needs a bit more searching.
Not that I’m aware of. I think the nearest one is in Hermeskeil. It’s been a while since I’ve been to Brussels but I’ve never seen a Casa 2.111 there (or my memory is really going…)


Madrid is well worth a visit…
An item in the local newspaper stated that a Casa 2.111 will be coming to Rotterdam for display. Where it will be displayed is not known yet but the aircraft in question is currently in the depot of the Militärhistorisches Museum in Berlin. The article also stated that it is one of only four remaining Casa 2.111 bombers but I seriously doubt that to be correct. 😉
Might as well post this image again which I scanned from an old Flight mag a few years ago:
Just a year later but this one was a bit more expensive… but airworthy!
Are we talking about Mach number, indicated airspeed, true airspeed or ground speed? There is no clear maximum as you need to define which speeds you’re comparing first. Have a look at this article for the official records held by the VC10: http://www.vc10.net/Memories/Recordsetting.html
Maximum recorded speed for the VC10 is M0,96 and that was during this incident: http://www.vc10.net/History/incidents_and_accidents.html#G-ASIX%20The%20Andes%20incident
There may have been occasions where it went faster, but that won’t be recorded anywhere and is therefore impossible to prove.