Originally posted by Snapper
“call yourself European?”

No. I am not European. I am English. (British in my passport, but I am not Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish.)

“.

So if Germans are Germans, French are French and British are British…..I am just discovered that there are not europeans in Europe…Great, concept of geography:D…..and someone from London…is not English but Londoner?

Originally posted by mongu
I?

CHANGE THE EU

MAKE IT DEMOCRATIC!

MAKE IT ACCOUNTABLE!

[

OK, agree, lets do it. Any idea how to do it?

Kev surveys are pretty accurate. Only a couple of points may varry. In the case of the war, it´s was almost impossible finding someone in Spain who supported the war. Demostrations were the biggest ever…..my city of 140000 inhabitants, almost 50000 people went out, even more than in the coup attempt in the seventies, which had the records in terms of figures. What does that have to do with Europe?, Being atlantist as our president, means being euroskpectic……is Spain euroskeptic…not at all.

Originally posted by Snapper
“There is a strip of sea that divides us from Europe. You are a geographical neighbour only. That’s a fact.

Oh fine, so the Northern Irland is not a part of the UK, a strip of sea divides you. Whom did the UK inherited things?. Which empires?. I´ll tell you: the First one the Roman and Greek Empire, the real amalgamator of the Europan culture, from who we have got everything, from languages, legal system, food, art and many other things, when it was possible to walk from Rome to the Adriam Wall and from Lusitania to Constantinople. Who do you think being British comes from?, From the large plains of Missouri, from the jungles of Thailand?. Where do you think the anglo-saxon comes from? purity, not amalgamation of people, and the Normans who do you think they come from?. And whom do you think the English writers, painters and articians shape the British soul….from the Assyrian Empire….come on guys…..saying you don´t have anything with Europe it´s a bit bold. Looking to America? Fine, but whom do you think the American culture come from?……Gengis Kan?. Nobody hasn´t asked me yet the following question….is the European culture so shamefull to make you just look to your belly?. Will you be able to hide the British purity in the globalized world?. I am affraid there are too many prejudices and probably a lack of common understanding.

Re: man…

Originally posted by Vortex
talk about nationalism..uh, i mean continentalism…..hyper facists 😀
Last i recall, ALL of eastern Europe are more pro-Americans than French or Germans….i wonder why? Wow, such peer pressure….
What do you mean by “Euro”? Chirac’s lackies telling others to shut up and get in line again?

Wrong information Vortex, that brings sometimes the danger of only watching Fox News or reading the Washington Post, and even trusting this nonsense of Old/New Europe. I don´t mind clarifying you some concepts. One thing is governamental support of some European leaders, and other is what the majority of the population think. Our president walked shoulder with shoulder with GWB with a 91 per cent against. And no single European country supported the war or don´t feel european. Just check the votes when they are called to vote their entry…Hungarian….more than 80 per cent for it. Slovenia…..tha same.

Of course UK is not Mongolia but Europe. Personal feelings, well it´s up to anyone. Drop it Geforce. It´s an unreasonable discussion, with sometime unreasonable arguments. When we bring out history and invations for loathing us, the whole argument gets a bit absurd. I curse the moroccons for having invaded Spain, and curse the danes for the vikings having looted my city. What it surprise me most, is hardly anyone in the UK wants to get out of the Union. Probably is not so bad, nice for the good things, and complaining for the bad ones. Do you think snapper we don´t suffer from fishing conversion…we the first fishing industry in Europe?, wouldn´t it be a question of preserving species?. Again blame the EU. I have heard many complains and suspicious among old people who were in contact with war and have sour feelings to germans, but having some response in way a bit xenophobic…from young brittons (ans I am not refering to anyone) seems to be a rather refreshing and particular view of the world. But one more advise, solve your identity problems and don´t blame others. Whatever you like it, or not, you´re Europe and always been. Sorry guys¡

Originally posted by mongu
Do you really think Spain can retain her national identity under those circumstances?

Well the real issue, is what determines identity?, what determines soverignity?. Having King Juan Carlos on the bank notes (somthing which don´t give more or less soveranity) make me less or more Spanish. As far as other things are concerned. I suppose if a common project of as you United States of Europe, we give ideas of how to improve our practical aspects of live….welcome. The world is globality, and the standarization is unavoidable. The EU have a lot to go, and the main thing in the EU is that agreements are reached by a consensus and only one identity is crushed when something is forced upon other things. Believe me. Spanish automonies are so different sometimes that the north has more to do with other parts of the world than the rest of Spain and we have lived together for generations. Whatever the UK don´t follow EU rules or not….the world is getting alike, policies will tend to be alike, and differential things are almost dissapearing. Do you think we can draw a line and say….no this or that to preserve my identity when markets, societies, are so mixed up?: Media makes the world alike. So my advise dear friend. Be pregmatical (the UK can´t be outside in any aspects), try to demand reforms in the EU (to build a real thing to be proud of) and start to see that our countries are not that special and that we can learn a lot in a common table of discussion, of countries which will have (whatever we like or not) to live together. If not, the US will make a good use of our weakness. 😉

I´ll ask in that shop over here for you, and if so, I´ll send you a packet. Ok?