I´ll ask in that shop over here for you, and if so, I´ll send you a packet. Ok?

Originally posted by mongu
1. You haven’t dropped your identity YET. Wait until you get common foreign/defence/tax policies. The EU is like Russia and all its members are like the “republics” of the USSR – they will be utterly subjugated. That is what the EU is trying to do and people just keep saying “well, it needs reform” but NOBODY WILL EVER REFORM IT, BECAUSE THEY HAVEN’T EVEN TRIED TO YET.

2. UK is anti-European. NO, just anti-EU.

3. Our peoples have similar habbits. YES. We have similar habbits to the Australians, but I don’t see us becoming one country!

Does the Scotland, Wales or the different Spanish regions, lost their identity..no. And we have lived together for generations. Only identity is lost when something is imposed by force. I prefer to say that we enrichen our indetity.
-Saying the British are antieuropean, it´s a bit extreme, dear Mongu. Well, at least the million Britons who come to Spain, and to other european countries seemed to be happy crossing the channel. How could an European country be anti european, and anti himself, and anti his roots and indentity. I understand you could feel suspicious about the EU, but not anti other countries who don´t deserve being despised by your indecissions.
-When I found real anti europeism, I want to make a question to clarify things. Did any european country force the UK to stay into the EU?, even Mrs Thatcher seemed to be satisfied into the Union. ….No other country in Europe seemed to be unsatisfied with the EU, and think it´s a good idea: Are we stupid?, are our identity less important as British?. We accept that we may build something good, interchanging ideas and projects. I wonder why some people of the UK, rejects, ideas and suggestion from other european countries…..are the UK so perfect to asume that they are the best and nothing from Europe could be useful?. And Australia was British until a recent history. No good comparision.

Originally posted by mongu
All the arguments above are quite valid. Correct, the Americans were not good friends to the UK at certain times. Then, neither were the Europeans.

De Gaulle’s “Non” is still remembered deeply. I think the sentiment the American’s expressed, that France was ungrateful, was well understood in the UK. It applied equally to the French attitude to the UK.

-Of course they are internal quarrels in the EU, as we have a lot in Spain. But we are supposed to be building a common project, which most citizens in your contry seemed to agree, at least in the basic principal.

How can you argue against that? It comes back to the De Gaulle issue – the UK was nearly annihilitated in WW2, fighting the Nazis. I don’t want to push that point too much, because I believe in modesty and I also believe tens of millions of Europeans suffered terribly as well as the British.

-And the UK help to build the current Europe, but you can´t think of Europe of only some periods. Not only the UK fought for democracy, we fought for it in a civil war a lost it, in France the bloody french revolution created a seed in people.

So now, our neighbours were free and democratic. Then you go and invent the EU, and surrender democracy. Why??

-The UK agreed on that. Nobody forced the UK to go in. If the Eurosceptics don´t like how the institutions work, why don´t you fight to change them?.

But….common foreign policy, tax harmonisation, single currency…that is way too far. Who controls all this? Unelected officials.

-Unelected officials?. Do you elect the ministers when a party comes to power?. Is the UK undemocratic for the people not electing the minister of defense for instance?. Common policies are consent and negociated by different countries and not imposed to any particular country. If some decissions are not popular, people should complain to their goverments not to the EU.

Okay, the member states themselves are democratic, so the lack of democracy in the EU is irrelevant.

-It´s not irrelevant, but as I pointed out something ti improve.

. Anyway, the control the members have over the EU mostly comes from Inter-Governmental Conferences. Politicians jockeying for the best jobs when they reture for national politics!!!

-And not in all countries national goverments?

It makes a mockery of the true meaning of the word “democracy”.

Oh – Keltic – if the EU is serious about competing wth the US, it must adopt English as the No. 2 language for all countries. The policy of the Icelanders is interesting. They used to learn

-In many aspects, we are competing with the US because we try to build things in common. Things which probably wouldn´t happen as single unities….remember Airbus?. As far as language is concerned, the question if one or other language is second or third is irrelevant as long as we are able to communicate in five or six languages.

Do you really think the rest of European countries want to annoy the UK?. No country in the whole EU have showed themselves as anti european as the UK, and we all love our countries, we all enjoy democracy, we haven´t dropped our identity. I think the UK is quite rooted in Europe, just observe the habbits of people. What they drink, eat, observe, how they dressed where they go on holidays…..all european habbits. Europe is much more than institutions or political concepts, but people, ideas, societies and history which shapes people. And in a way, the US also comes from European ideals.
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Originally posted by mongu
You may be right about Britian having lost the imperial icon, Keltic. Maybe we need another icon. But the EU is not it! The EU is against all ideals of freedom, democracy, open markets which we stand for. The fact that our “neighbours” are so keen to be part of the EU means they do not value these things like we do. Well, I know a country which DOES value them like we do: America.

Hence, I am an Atlanticist, transatlantic differences of opinion not withstanding.

I don´t understand why you think the EU is not a democratic organization and does not value freedom and democracy. Of course many things in the comission need to be changed, but it´s still a young organization with fantastic ideals to fight for. All countries into the EU are as democratic as the UK or US and the parliament is chosen by the citizens. Of course the US and UK society don´t value the same things, don´t see society in the same way. The lack of identity with europe, with which I insists the UK has enherited most of your soul: the enlightment, the classic art, the influence of Roman and Greek empire, the years and years of common history left a trace. The real issue sometimes, and I don´t want ta say it´s your case, is that British people are not really fond of lerning foreign languages and that´s essential to know other people and understand why they think like that. I appreciate the tranastlantic link, but not that means a chain and having poodle politicians. If any other power, and believe me, UK itself is not big or important enough, means a real alternative then appart from a lack of dignity, means that this what so called “atlantism” will mean submiss relationship instead of friendship in equal terms. Only a strong EU would mean a strong UK. And believe me I don´t Blair image, as a henchman.

I think LH has just fitted in PTV in Economy class, but I am 100% sure. Just write LH for details. They always answer. I called them four times.
-Complain for a conection…..they sent me a LH watch with excuses
-Ask about information of B747-400 wiring (after TW800)…..a pilot called me to explain me the point.
-My girlfriend was affraid of flying and I make it know……..at the departure lounge, she was called and driven to the cockpit, were she stayed for take off.
-Suggestion about menus…….they sent me a LH pencil with explanation.
For me they are a bit dull, but germanly efficient.

There used to be coffee bags here. I don´t know if they sell them any longer. I am affraid you´d have to come to the the evil continent:)

The universe hides fascinating secrets, which could be letal for all of all us. While we are discussing about idiotic things, like WMD, teasing other countries, potential dangers (real WMD) might be real dangers for our existence. As far as I know, no concrete plans to face an incoming asteroid. Is the human being something ridicule?. The shot looks really interesting an intriguing.

Originally posted by mongu
But, and Geforce will be down my throat for saying this, overall I have more time for the US than for Europe. I see eye to eye with Americans on most issues, apart from the exception above. Not so with my continental neighbours, who have this all encompassing love of the antithesis of democracy and freedom: the EU.

I guess I am at heart an Atlanticist and not a European. What you need to ask, is how many other Brits feel the same? In my opinion, a simple majority.

Mongu; Of course you are free to feel more conected with one part of the world of other, but I would like to make some remarks. The UK is Europe, has an European identity in the way people perceives things, have an european history and european costumes. The problem is that there´s a continously stubborness in drawing a line with the continent. A common language doesn´t bring a common identity, and the US resambles the UK as much as Spain resambles to Peru, that´t to say…nothing. The real problem with the UK; country I know quite well, is that it has a problem of identity. You have had a inmese empire and now have to match with the problem that many other countries are as important as the UK. For this reason, folkoric elements tend to be use to determine a false different identity such as the currency, driving on the left, imperial and so on. But if you go to the basic there are not much differences between someone living in Berlin or London. The real reason is that many british people have fear to the unknow and reject everything they don´t want to understand, feeling that only negative aspects come from the other side of the continent. And please don´t interpret that as a reproach to your country, which I really admire.