And you think all that’s bad times it by two or so and you have what Russia is trying to field S-300PMU2s, S-400s, S-300Vs, and all their sub-flavors, S-500, S-400 “big missile”, Gazelle ABM, new VLS version of the SA-N-7. . . Hell, if they do what they’ve been claiming with the S-400 you’ll have PAC-3, THAAD, and SM-3 analogs in that system ALONE.

The difference is that the S-300 and S-400 missiles are all based around the same system components or modifications thereof. S-500 will likely be in the same vein, there’s no sense reinventing the wheel. GAZELLE? Might have a lot more to do with the S-300V than people think, helping explain why it has never been seen in public… The VLS GRIZZLY is simply a modern version of their main mid-range naval SAM system. It looks like there’s a lot going on, but when you get right down to it, the differences between a lot of these systems are sometimes little more than different missiles in the launch tubes.

Thats one of the things that is really intriguing me, I am just waiting for some sexy new Russian AAM’s for the Pakfas bays!:diablo:

It’ll likely be the new R-73 follow-on and the ramjet-powered R-77, with an outside possibility of the R-37 as well.

I thought it had been built or almost completed yet that statement says there only just sorting out “finalising the specific requirements” – how can that be if its almost finished? :confused:

Because if you read the entire sentence, they were finalizing the requirements for the IAF version, which may have need for different mission avionics and weapons than the Russian variant. To that end they can build a prototype and fly it tomorrow, and still be unsure of the avionics or weapons fit for even the Russian variant. Whatever R-77 variant they want to stick in the weapons bay won’t have any bearing on the aerodynamic testing of a prototype, will it?

Does anybody else find it strange that we have a Jon and a Jeff both posting the same nonsense?

They aren’t the same person, I checked.

Sean in this context is everything. Garry got all humpty and started going on about Russia abrogating treaties specifically INF – my point was that now no-one in Western Europe had to worry about columns of T-80’s rolling down the Champs Elysees few would really care what the Russians chose to abrogate.

And the INF treaty isn’t going to affect their rearmament with enough tanks to occupy Paris. If Russia pulls out of the INF treaty, life will get very interesting, mark my words. If Western Europe chooses to remain in the dark to that fact, then it’ll be their loss.

You have stated as much above that the threat of the Red Army rolling on up to the English Channel has receded. Therefore my point stands about the force being a shell of its former self. For all the wonderful double-digit SAMs they possess, warships that are truly smiters of all aircraft carriers everywhere, fighter radars that can detect a gnat urinating at 400km and all the other great stuff so often touted here the fact is that they are NOT a threat to NATO in any aggressive sense. Therefore, in comparison to what they were, they are now very much a paper tiger.

1. Russia’s double-digit SAM systems are in fact the best land-based SAM systems in the world, and the margin isn’t even really all that close.
2. Russia does have systems in service that’d make life very difficult for even a vaunted USN SAG. And they were in the business of developing the tactis to do just that for about 40 years, after all.
3. Anyone who thinks a fighter radar will detect something like a 0.001m2 target at 400km is deluding themselves.
4. Being a shell of their former selves and being a paper tiger are not the same thing.

No sane analyst HAS dismissed the Russian nuclear arsenal!. I dont know how many times I expressely used the word ‘conventional’ in the posting I made above especially to highlight the difference between the two facets of Russian forces. The conventional forces are, today, a comprehensive defence force well capable, I’m sure, of looking after Russia’s national defence needs, but, you surely have to accept, that is a dramatic scale-down from where they were!.

Again, even though they are admittedly scaled back from the height of the Cold War, they are in no way a paper tiger that can be dismissed. Do consider that Western European militaries haven’t exactly been expanding all over the place since 1990 either.

Any idea what they’re wargaming here? :diablo:

AVP on Blu-Ray. Got a Blu-Ray player Tuesday and this seemed like a great first choice. The film, which I always thought was a decent movie, looks absolutely fabulous in 1080p. I also got I Am Legend and Hitman on Blu-Ray, I’ll be watching those this weekend (haven’t seen either one yet). Now I can’t wait for AVP:R and Predator to come out on Blu-Ray in April 😀

I also recently watched Chaos on DVD. Jason Statham and Wesley Snipes are in this one, a cop film about a very weird bank robbery. This was a really good movie I thought, but I am partial to anything with Statham. If you like Statham, or if you like movies along the lines of The Negotiator or The Inside Man, check this one out.

I think my personal favorite has always been I Want It All.

[color=red]Alright, reading through all of your back-and-forth bickering is, sadly, no longer amusing. This thread is getting closed due to a lack of intelligent debate and worthwhile content over the last half-dozen pages. Start a new thread, and keep it both civil and intelligent.[/color]