Maybe if the Brits were to acquire Ospreys for some other role it would be a possibility but I can’t envision them ever buying the aircraft just for the COD role.
That was my thinking (well I think mine was that in reverse!)
Buy the Long Range version of Osprey (which happens to be the COD platform) to do lots of jobs it just so happens that one of them would be the one it was originally optimised for
“buy an Osprey, get a fleet air arm”
Boeing agrees with me it seems:
In the case of the UK, ditching Chinooks to help fund an Osprey purchase to support the carriers is a no brainer surely?
I’d like to keep the Chinooks*
But the COD version of Osprey is very attractive as well
It’s reminiscent to me of Lockheed’s marketing campaign for the Herc “buy an Osprey, get a fleet air arm”
* buy P1s instead of P8s to get the savings I say
Wonder if the would have put Speys in them? Tomcat F.1? Sounds great!
Almost certainly
Look at the history of Corsair and Tomcat problem engines and engines which actually worked
I’m sure that we’d have had the designation Tomcat FGR1 and ideally for RAF as well as RN
Which to my mind brings images of two rocket pods under each wing glove (for no logical reason)
Would we have bought Phoenix as well? I suspect an opportunity to save money by sticking to Skyflash myself
There are in to mind two big points in favour of T26 light as the patrol frigate
1. So long as we avoid gold plating the basic hull, building lots of the same unit (and common logistics) is actually going to be cheaper than two cleverly small classes of different vessels
2. The one thing that those patrol frigates will need is endurance. When T22s were sent down south for the FIGS role it was not uncommon for the lovely big resonance chamber above the sonar (you know the only actual modern, cutting edge bit of kit on the ship) to be filled with toilet rolls and other consumables. T26 light should have plenty of empty compartments for storing consumables without needing to cripple its mission systems.
The Falklands was a political campaign on both sides
Galtieri and co needed something to distract their populace from their domestic woes
If they could have held off until their preparations (and UK errors) were completed then they would not have needed to launch the invasion in the first place; if they had time to plan they had time to follow a far less risky course of action
Co-incidentally Thatcher and co needed something to distract voters from their domestic woes
(Famously she asked her advisers where Ark Royal and her Phantoms were when first meeting to plan a response, which suggests a less than complete understanding of UK defence capabilities; the invasion could have been avoided by a display of sufficient will before hand, repeating the SSN disappearing and leaking reports that she was headed down south or even just NOT planning to sell our baby flat top to the Australians and scrapping the Antarctic survey ship would have given the Junta the impression that the FI and FIs meant something to HMG)
EDIT: Just read the rest of the thread and have been beaten to the punch
Why in the world are the Egyptians buying two Mistrals they don’t need? Surely there are more urgent priorities in that blighted country than the need for off-shore power projection.
You’ll get no argument from me on the twisted spending priorities. (Although I’d argue that this would apply to plenty of nations).
The reason for buying this particular big shiny package goes (IMMOO) in this order:
Egyptian Navy proves how effective FAC s can be in their waters (Styx and Komar vs Eilat)
RN shows how the best counter is Helos armed with light missiles (Lynx with Sea Skua)
French Nautical-industrial complex comes up with a design for getting lots of Helos to sea a lot cheaper (upfront costs and operating) than any competing design (Mistral)
The software is written in ADA .
ADA is a pig to programme it’s true and generates much* more lines of code than alternatives. But it excels at what it was meant to do it’s very difficult to ‘successfully’ programme in it and then find that it falls over
*much is a non specific term with no numbers given to back it up. But frankly if you are reading and able to respond to this you are connected to the sum total of open source human knowledge and could get a better understanding with less effort and/or time than it would take to query my phrasing.
I’m in complete agreement over the custom designed hardware and its obsolescence built in point though.
As an aside (and possibly teaching granny to suck eggs) I think that there has been confusion in a couple of posts about the range of a missile launched from a surface platform and the range of the same weapon launched from a fast flying aircraft
To the original question the key word I think is the modular in CAAMM. Asraam replacement will use many of the same bits as seawolf replacement and rapier replacement but not all (naive optimist Al thinks that this opens the door to RAF using both AR and IR for air launch and RN likewise from skimmers, realistic Al recognises that this is unlikely)
I’m torn; on the one hand its clearly **** for everyone on the Korean peninsular and neighbours that the tension is just ratcheting up. On the gripping hand I’ve a soft spot for the S3 and its good to see them going back into service rather than rotting away (however slowly that rotting is in the boneyard)
We cannot man (person) both, we cannot escort both, we don’t have a third to relieve one from duties as it heads for refit or repair.
It is however very good news that we will have a second in order to relieve the first for refit and repair. (I.e we might actually one carrier available to do things. I think that the French have worked wonders to make one flat top do so much)
Blazing a trail for UAV ops might allow us to do something more than be a USMC-expeditionary-group-light
VN – Which contracts would those be? Not Korea, which I believe is the only real competition (not a beauty contest) where prices were on the table for both the F-35 and a European competitor.
Was it a real contest though? The link with the U.S. Is SO important to S Korea (and for very good strategic and historical reasons) that the likelihood of anything other than the U.S.’ next big programme winning was always very small
vis a vis the F-16 which was blown out of proportion to what was being tested with the caveat that it WAS A TEST PILOT (which historically don’t give rave reviews of a particular aircrafts virtues, but point out flaws)
I’m not a fan of the F35 (the plan yes, and I remain cautiously optimistic about the plane but not liking where it is so far) but that is the most sensible observation I’ve read yet on the infamous criticism. Well done that man.
I think it depends which airframe you update
An F15 with new bells and whistles will still have fantastic kinematic performance and endurance (whilst it has quite rightly been stated that an AIM120 does not care what plane it was launched from, and to get the best out of it you need the mid course datalink which fits with the upgrade policy, the higher the altitude and velocity the launch aircraft has the better the performance of the missile)
An EE Lightning will still have shoddy endurance (but bags of charisma and kinematic performance) if retrofitted with DASS and Blue Vixen
Surely the best approach here is to produce 3 versions- one lower-tech model to get into service quickly and then 2 designs which enthusiasts 60 years later will still consider “futuristic”.
😀
What you get when you rearrange the Foxhound into a Typhoon’s wing layout…
Didn’t someone once describe the Tiffie as being an F15 crammed into an airframe the size of an F18? I suppose that design is just the (Il)logical extreme. Wouldn’t want to corner too sharply on the ground though…..