Thanks Errol.
Because in the past New Zealanders have lead the world in many areas like sporting achievments or inventions, there is a notion in this country, often promoted through media and certain authors, that we should promote our achievements and recognise all world leading claims to fame, even if some may have a dodgy grounding, like Pearce. I think the general feeling is we all want to believe a New Zealander flew first, but over the years with the researchers from both sides putting their cases forwar, the evidence has become blurred and a lack of fact has morphed into folklore. Really when it comes to Pearse it is very difficult to know what to believe. I m firmly on the fence about it, though I do like to talk the possibilities through as it is an interesting topic.
I would never call the man insignificant or his achievements that modest – how many Kiwi farmers from a century ago who tinkered in their shed building stuff for their own amusement are still talked about today? Not many. And he put Waitohi on the map, that’s for sure.
The book I mentioned is called ‘New Zealand Yesterdays – A Look At Our Recent Past” by Hamish Keith OBE (Picture Research by William Main). The book was published by Readers’ Digest in 1984.
It’s actiually a very interesting and well-researched book by all accounts. I have heard that Keith is a very well-respected researcher too in New Zealand literary, historical and artistic circles. I have never heard anyone doubting his credibility, but you may be able to advise oherwise. But the claim in this book was, to me, quite startling.
Just the fact that the title to this particular chapter is called “He flew before the Wright Brothers” made me a little suspect, since no-one knows for sure and never will. So as you’ll agree it was surprising to read the first sentences below this title which read,
“A young farmer in South Canterbury took to the air in powered flight on 31 March 1902, one year and nine months before Orville Wright flew at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina. His name was Richard Pearse and his admirers claim that he should be honoured as the man who made the world’s first controlled powered flight.
There is no doubt that he flew before the celebrated flight of the plane made by Orvile and Wilbur Wright. Researchers have established, from the accounts of dozens of eyewitnesses, details of two prior flights by Pearse. What is in dispute is whether Pearse made a controlled flight. His own later accounts did not support the claim – but then he also discounted the Wright’s first flight.”
It goes on to talk about the construction of his prototype, and it was this he says researchers reckon flew on the 31st of March 1902. It says,
“It took off from a farm paddock, climbed slowly, turned right and flew about 1200 metres down a riverbed before making a forced landing in the water.
Exactly a year later the rebuilt and modified machine took off past the schoolhouse in the main Waitohi road, climbed to an altitude of three or four metres, flew some 50 metres and finally wedged itself in a high grse hedge.
Sceptics argue that both flights occurred in 1903 and were not controlled flights.”
The book goes on about the research of Charles Gibbs Smith (sceptic), and Gordon Ogilvie, but I don’t know where the rest of his sources came from. It also talks about him patenting his invention of the aileron.
So, that’s what the book says, and it just shows how there are loads of differing views, all who think they’re right I suppose. I have never seen anything else mentioning 1902 at all.
Are the interviews that you mentioned with Pearse available as transcripts anywhere Errol? As I said in my earlier post I’d be interested to read them.
As I say, when he himself has supposedly denied any claim to the feat, where did the evidence come from that made so many people think he did fly first? There must have been something written down, recorded, etc at the time? Was it in the local newspaper? Or a diary? How can they be so precise with dates otherwise?
At the end of the day…no matter how many people write books saying he did fly before everyone else, and no matter how many researchers write books or articles saying he didn’t, it will never be proven, no-one will ever know for sure either way. Full stop. But then researchers have to keep rewriting history or they’d be out of a job, wouldn’t they?
This is wonderful news to hear that the old line-up are getting back together. I really hope it goes well for them.
I guess all the guys in the band are older and wiser now, and are ready to let the disputes of the past lie for a much bigger cause. The entire concert sounds like it will be superb, but Pink Floyd alone will make it worth buying the DVD and CD when they come out (as I’m sure they will). Sadly in a concert like this with loads of acts, the guys of Floyd may only get a couple of songs in.
This is wonderful news to hear that the old line-up are getting back together. I really hope it goes well for them.
I guess all the guys in the band are older and wiser now, and are ready to let the disputes of the past lie for a much bigger cause. The entire concert sounds like it will be superb, but Pink Floyd alone will make it worth buying the DVD and CD when they come out (as I’m sure they will). Sadly in a concert like this with loads of acts, the guys of Floyd may only get a couple of songs in.
There was a three-ship Spitfire display team doing airshow appearances in the UK in the late 1980’s/early 1990’s too.
Another team to use the Mustang was the Brietling Fighters, and their unnamed NZ predecessor too, but each only used one of, as each P51D accompanied a P40, Spitfire and Corsair.
As for Harvard and T-6 texan teams,here’s but a few:
– The Roaring Forties (NZ civil, five-ship, 1978-2004)
– Warbirds Harvard Display Team (NZ Civil, four-ship?, 2004 – present)
– The Red Chequers (RNZAF, 1960’s – 1978)
– A CFS Harvard team proceeding the Red Chequers (RNZAF, three-ship, postwar-50’s)
– Southern Knights (Australian) http://www.australianwarbirds.com.au/southern.html
– Flying Lions team (Civil, South Africa)
– The Canadian Harvard Aerobatic Team (http://www.canadianharvards.com/)
– AeroShell Aerobatic Team (http://www.stuartairshow.com/aeroshell.html)
– South African Air Force Harvard Aerobatic Team (SAAF)
– North American Aerobatics Team http://www.aeroclub.com.sv/ilopangoairshow/ilopango2004intnorthamaerobaticteamen.htm
I am certain if you look hard enough you’ll find dozens more, especially historical ones, and I’m sure there will be more in the USA. In fact i think Steve Patterson said he was in one with his T-6
My guess would have been 1) the Harvard/T6 and 2) North American
There are a lot of civil teams using the Harvard as well as military teams of the past.
I just watched The Man With The Golden Gun. What is the name of the ampibious flying boat James flew to the “South China Sea” baddy lair?
I have seen one of them up at Ardmore and wondered what they are called. Mr Scaramanga blew it up with his lazer, as you do.
I also noticed the Hunter mentioned, just a cockpit section really.
And we mustn’t forget the flying cars, one being the normal American Motors Hornet Hatchback that Bond commandeered and he made it fly through a roll across the river (cool stunt, apparently designed by a computer at the Cornell University Aeronautical Laboritory in New York – the car had to hit the ramp at the exact speed and angle to achieve the airborne feat. The stunt driver did it in one take and got a $1000 bonus on the spot!).
The other is Scaramanga’s American Motors Coupe which magically sprouts wings and a twin-boom tail and takes off into the blue yonder, hehe, oh dear. I assume this was a model when seen in flight.
Those Roger Moore films were pretty farcical when compared with the Connery ones, weren’t they? I used to think Moore was the best, but that was when I was a kid.
Lovely photos, thanks for showing us.
The owners of the B-25 HB-RDE and the T-28 HB-RCT, already based in Sion, also owns several other warbirds which are still based in different places in the world (South Africa, NZ, US, …). Discutions are on the way to build a new hangar and to welcome some more nice birds in Sion.
What do they own that is in NZ out of curiosity?
I haven’t a clue who this Lyman Gilmore was. but he’s not a New Zealander, he’s an American, and looking at the designs on this page, somewhat a cackpot
http://www.flyingmachines.org/gilmore.html
I am curious to see documented evidence showing that Richard Pearse had not begun constructing his aircraft in 1903. That makes little sense when there were many witnesses who say they saw him fly in March of that year. I have one book which clearly states he first flew on the 31st of March 1902, a short flight ending in a crash. His next flight, the famous “controlled flight” coming exactly a year later according to this book. It may or may not be wrong. We’ll never know.
But all these researchers who believe he did do something must have some evidence to base it all upon surely. It can’t all just have been made up by historians from thin air like some would like to believe these days.
It is well known that Richard Pearse in later life, when people began asking about his early days of flying, had mental problems and did not like media attention. So naturally he might fob them off with such statements that he hadn’t built the plane if he didn’t want to be bothered. From the accounts I’ve read and seen, several farmers and many children at the school have gone on record stating hey saw him fly on March 31st, 1903. But, as I say, we’ll never know, and I never settle in one camp or the other. I keep an open mind. There is certainly no doubt the man was an engineering genius.
Though I agree in principle about the overall general ugliness of French aircraft (it also applies to most of their cars too!), this page alone demonstrates they were not alone in ugly designs
http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/milestones-of-flight/aircraft/1922.html
I was only looking for a shot of the Avro Bison and found a swag of uglies togther with it – Blackburn Dart, Vickers Vernon and Westland Walrus, all as ugly as the Bison. Hard to believe these same companies came up with the likes of the lovely Wellington, Whirlwind fighter, Baffin and Lancaster, not to mention the Anson and by proxy the loveliest of all, the Spitfire.
My God! That is terrible. I am really sorry to here this. I guess you cannot even afford a good lawyer? I’m afraid I have no advice I can offer but I really wish you luck in resolving this terrible situation.
My God! That is terrible. I am really sorry to here this. I guess you cannot even afford a good lawyer? I’m afraid I have no advice I can offer but I really wish you luck in resolving this terrible situation.
PS Is it a Sheep by-product??? 🙂 🙂 😉 😉 🙂 🙂
Are you trying to suggest it’s making me woolly minded? 🙂
This thread is supposed to be about a serious topic relating to WWII aircrew. It is very interesting and rather intrigueing. However, I don’t mind the comedy either because I started it with my tongue-in-cheek suggested theory!
I do not believe in flying saucers from outer space, that is nonsense cooked up by the US military and perpetuated to the gullible by Hollywood.
Like Jonathon, I too think there is an answer much more realistic and natural than objects from beyond the stars. Who knows.
Is this phenomenon still seen today by pilots I wonder, all the cases of Foo Fighters seem to be WWII based. Maybe that’s what the famous Kaikoura Lights were, the same thing?
Though I think the whole alien thing is bunkum, I personally have seen a UFO. I use the term literally – it was a flying object which I could not identify. And it was very odd. I was about 19 or 20. My younger sister also saw it but strangley now has no recollection of the event. (maybe they’ve gotten to her 😮 hehe!)
It was four bright lights in a diagonal formation descending on a 45 degree angle from high up down to the ground, in this formation (ignore the lines, just the O’s)
O
____O
________O
____________O
It went down to the ground – disappearing behind trees. I went inside and told my Nana and sister what I’d seen, my sister came outside and ten minutes later we both saw it take off again exactly reversing the route I’d seen it descend, going up on the 45 degree ascent. It was a clear summer’s evening, still very light. The sun glinted off all four objects, or at least they appeared bright and may have been artificial lights.
Now, the direction we looked at and about the same distance is Hamilton Airport. Back then then only planes you could see, if you were lucky with the right conditions, landing there, were Boeing 737’s. But this was not one for several reasons – a) you could hear them but often not see them, before the days of hushkits we always heard the 737’s landing on calm nights such as this. I heard nothing. b) Boeings do not land there on a 45 degree angle, and c) they do not land in formations of four planes. The lights/reflections were far enough apart to not be one object unless it were massive. Additionally, d) Boeings NEVER landed and took off within ten minutes at Hamilton. They had to refueld, dump pax and reload more pax, etc. I doubt it were two different planes. Yes the ascent of the Boeings was steep, but the descent was never that steep and I really do not think this could have been a Boeing.
So, I call it a UFO till someone identifies it to my satisfaction. Perhaps it was a flock of Magpies each with a shiny pilfered object? 😀
🙂
I wondered who’d be the first…
I found this here
http://home.manyrivers.aunz.com/sting1946/foo.htm
“The Germans laid claim to the manufacturing and flying of these unusual craft. They even had detailed drawings of their interior workings. But it was a lie!
One report states that one of these ‘Foo Fighters’ entered through the fuselage of the bomber aircraft without making a hole, flew around inside the interior of the plane only to disappear back out through the wall of the aircraft again without making a hole.”
Not Sagan, he and all the Stalag Luft III prisoners were forced to march many hundreds of miles in the freezing cold and misery to Trenthorst near Hamburg. This was done because the Russians were very close to liberating them. This became known as ‘the death march’, one of many during the war I guess. Though it is not totally clear because they were not told exactly where they wer, it was from somewhere between Bremen and the river Elbe I think, while on the way to Trenthorst where he witnessed this raid.
These foo fighters sound interesting, I shall google further into this.
Thanks for clarifying what a Wanganui is. Interesting codename, I wonder if there was a Kiwi connection in the invention of it.