Well it might just interest you that I used Google first with numerous key word combinations because I knew the search engine here is complete ****, and when that did not bring up the result I tried several alternative searches using the forum’s own hopeless system, and nothing remotely related came up apart from one other shorter thread that was not the one I was looking for. It’s really a ridiculous search engine, it seems to ignore boulian logic, and the results are scattergun with no chronological nor seemingly relevant order. I have tried before to use it to find a thread from a few days before, using five or six keywords, and it still fails. I usually don’t bother using it these days. I won’t be bothering again either. I think you mods should take it back to the manufacturer and get your money back.
Well it might just interest you that I used Google first with numerous key word combinations because I knew the search engine here is complete ****, and when that did not bring up the result I tried several alternative searches using the forum’s own hopeless system, and nothing remotely related came up apart from one other shorter thread that was not the one I was looking for. It’s really a ridiculous search engine, it seems to ignore boulian logic, and the results are scattergun with no chronological nor seemingly relevant order. I have tried before to use it to find a thread from a few days before, using five or six keywords, and it still fails. I usually don’t bother using it these days. I won’t be bothering again either. I think you mods should take it back to the manufacturer and get your money back.
Thanks Martin, that’s the one. Why the heck could I not get that? It’s a piece of carp (or something spelled very similarly).
Thanks Martin, that’s the one. Why the heck could I not get that? It’s a piece of carp (or something spelled very similarly).
I was under the impression that museums were places that recorded and retold our history to future generations through the use of displaying items from the past. I didn’t realise they are merely storage warehouses for artefacts that can in no circumstances be seen to represent anything but itself.
I hope this worrying trend doesn’t spill over into warbirds.
I for one have never said nor thought that the story of training aircrews is unimportant. However I don’t think it’s anywhere near as important as the story of the wartime operational crews who flew Vickers Wellingtons in Bomber Command and Coastal Command.
I would far prefer to see this aircraft used as a ‘prop’ in a ‘theatrical’ way, as Eddie puts it, to tell the story of what many thousands of men did in WWII for our freedom, the sacrifices they made and the experiences they endured against the flak, searchlights, night fighters and other rigours of the bombing campaign. Peacetime training’s story doesn’t come anywhere near that in historical importance, no matter where you’re from.
Surely the Wellington will educate people about this much greater story if they left it in wartime Bomber Command colours. Removing the colours and focusing on training detracts from the Wellington’s primary and most important role. Do we want future generations who visit the museum to think it was a mere trainer?
As for the idea that the RAF Museum’s policy has changed on theatrical props, if this is the case then why is it very recently they have purchased several replica aircraft from New Zealand rather than rely on displaying purely genuine artefacts? Perhaps some replica training postwar aircraft could fill the gap they feel they need to fill, however there are loads of Devons and Chipmunks around to do this, surely?
Apart from the other complete example R-Robert!
Which isn’t complete, it’s missing its skin. Kind of crucial to flying I believe.
I’m not sure where you are picking up that motive for changing this aircraft back to its trainer configuration?
The de-militarising of it, removing any offensive capability that might upset the wowsers in the removing of its turret and making it a navigation trainer. I wouldn’t mind so much if it was painted as a wartime OTU aircraft, their Wellingtons trained crews AND flew ops.
It just seems to me that taking this aircraft away from representing a wartime Bomber Command aircraft is yet another of these revisionist, apologist moves to appease the vocal minority who think Bomber Command were evil. It stinks. The Wellington was the backbone of the RAF through the first half of the war, flown by those who fought for our freedom. Representing the Wellington as a mere trainer from the postwar period means so much less. If there were fifty of them around in museums it wouldn’t matter. This is the only complete example though.
So I guess they will move it out of the Bomber Command Hall too, and place it with the trainers?
In my opinion, a stupid move. Keep it as a wartime bomber. That aircraft impressed me more than any other when I visited Hendon back in 1993. It was representative of the many thousands of men from across the world who flew, fought and died in the type. Some postwar trainer will mean so much less to most people.
If this does happen, then perhaps they should finish covering the Brooklands one, at least.
The section of Wellington on the wall was one of the things that intrigued me, as its the piece removed from the top of the tree at Wandlebury woods that it had crashed into fifty years previously. I had heard about it but it was the first time i’d actually seen it.
I believe that section is from the No. 75 (NZ) Squadron aircraft flown by Brian McNamara from here in Cambridge, New Zealand, which hit the tree and high ground on approach to Bassingbourn where he was to drop off a pilot and pick up another to return to Feltwell. Sadly all aboard except the Rear Gunner perished. It’s amazing to me that the section of Brian’s aircraft is preserved, a reminder of the sacrifices made by the young men from my home town. You can read Brian’s story on my website here:
http://www.cambridgeairforce.org.nz/Brian%20Mcnamara.htm
I have also put this online now and as info comes in I will build it up or correct it as the need arises:
http://www.cambridgeairforce.org.nz/Albert_Marsden.html
Something I’d love to find is that photo of him in front of the 1000th Harvard rolled off the NAA production line, giving the thumbs up, which was reported in a few newspapers here in NZ in April 1941.
Thanks mmitch, I have dropped them an email.
Do they not realise that if the bombing campaign had not taken place, that “small reduction in German war production” would almost certainly have become an ever increasingly production of war material by the Axis forces. The USA and Canada and India were all able to steadily up production of material because they were not being bombed day and night. if the Germans were not being bombed, they’d have had much higher morale, many more workers and the freedom to build more and more. They could have devoted efforts to other areas like the U-boat fleet and tipped the unsteady balance, winning the war.
These historians who sit comfortably now and disregard the importance of RAF Bomber Command and their contribution to the war effort really infuriate me.
The whole thing – Flying Legends – is lazy use of language. A legend is a tale, not a thing like an aeroplane.
As the airshow is designed to use aeroplanes as a way to tell the history and stories of the various aircraft to the public and pass on the legendary stories to future generations, I see nothing wrong with the title. The airshow does so using the aircraft as props to illustrate the stories, which are told by the commentators, the programme, the website, the DVD’s, etc.
The same stories could be told without the aeroplanes and the legends passed down but I doubt as many people would turn up to hear them without the fighters.
Thanks for that info Eric. I’m surprised you say that it was poor economic times because it cannot have been cheap to employ the army to build that road into the sea during a four month period, and I’m sure this was one of many recoveries going on at the time. I was thinking while watching the film that their budget must be huge and the country pretty rich.
Any idea how many aircraft have been recovered in this way from the water, and are the recoveries still reasonably frequent? Or has the push to reclaim land slowed down/stopped?
I assume it’s salt water?