I cannot believe that these cabin crew employed by BA can think so little of the people that pay their wages, the poor fare paying passenger, that they would inflict this thoughtless and selfish situation over the Xmas period. According to C4 tonight the average BA cabin crew wage is around £29k per annum with VS cabin crew average wage around £14k! These BA jerks have been overpaid and over privileged for far too long. I am in the industry and feel no solidarity or sympathy for these people whatsoever. Having seen the reaction of a UNITE union rep on C4 news tonight who, after seeing a clip of a young woman whose long awaited Xmas trip to Switzerland looks like being ruined at this late stage, describing her situation as unfortunate surely illustrates the thoughtless and cynical attitude of the strikers and those involved in organising them…..but then its not their Xmas being ruined is it. IMO at least these crew members have jobs, and not bad ones at that. My message to them would be that the industry that we are in, and I think we are privileged to be so, is in dire straights and time is running out for these BA “stars” to cotton on to this or to get of the planes and make room for the many hundreds of people out there that would be happy to replace them, I sincerely hope that BA stick to their guns on this one, and I never thought that I would say that.:mad:

I’d be very interested to hear what they say. Thanks.

So would I. I’ve also wondered what happened to all the clocks that used to be shown on the various channels during the lead up to programmes starting like news etc. I read somewhere that the clocks/timers shown before the school programmes were abolished as most schools obtained VCRs and so had no need to organise the class prior to the programme starting, and of course could show the prog as and when they needed to. Sorry, wandering way off topic here….back to those pips. 😉

Sad loss and of course condolences to those concerned.:( Flew on a Finnair example some years ago, was one of the smoothest rides aloft.

Well that’s a fair point of view, Interflug. Without going back over old ground where we differ, do you have a view on the dismantling of at least some of the bureaucracy in the name of better, less complex administration?

Please don’t misunderstand me, I’m under no illusion that the EU is perfect. To my mind it is an entity still in evolution. Yes the administration IS top heavy and has been for some time, it will be in the interests of all those involved with the running of the organisation to streamline and make more efficient all aspects of the administration processes, after all we all know what happens to top heavy ships! and IMO the Lisbon Treaty will make a major contribution to that end. As mentioned in the article that you were kind enough to highlight, the CAP is one of the many policies that are ripe for comprehensive reform although I remain to be convinced that dismantling it will cure all ills. Mention of cutting back on regulation makes my blood run cold, especially taking into account the crisis of capitalism that we appear to be witnessing at present and the thoughtless actions of many of those so called educated people in ‘high places’ in the UK that along with their counterparts across the pond have helped to bring it about. Its high time that this Govt made more effort to highlight the positive aspects of EU membership because there ARE some. No governmental organisation is cheap and there is waste everywhere one looks and I applaud any effort made in the EU to cut it down. A great shame that we don’t see the same from the shower running the show in the UK.

A well written piece for those with his point of view, but it is not mine. I am sure that he goes to bed each night as comfortable with his beliefs as I, which makes us both fortunate beings.;)

baz, I take on board what you are saying but IMO the issue has to be dealt with as things are today. I’m sure you’ll agree that the international landscape is vastly different from the days of what was then termed the ‘Common Market’. Personally as a rule I don’t believe in referenda as a principle, to me they represent weak government and I would not want to see them as common practice here. I take what you say about the mis leading way that certain politicians have handled the EU issue. The political parties should never have promised the referendum if they had no intention of providing it, but thats politicians for you! So much time has been wasted by the leaders here in wrangling with themselves over Europe that we have been left behind by events and the other states who have moved on, I don’t believe we should denegrate them for that. As a federalist I look at this from the point of view that clinging to the ideal of sovereignty is a falsehood. So many aspects of our country’s life and activity is dictated by the influence, policies and objectives of others more powerful than ourselves, and I don’t just mean European countries. IMHO we need the EU to be a credible and efficient counterweight to nations or groups of nations that are on the verge of changing the geo-political face of the world with their rising economic and in some cases, political power. Personally I view the Lisbon Treaty as a major step towards achieving that. Bearing the above in mind will a referendum here change much on the world scene which ever way it goes? I’m not sure that it would.

bazy and Sky High…….Yes I think we’ll have to agree to differ and it will be very interesting to see how this issue turns out. As far as the matter of a referendum is concerned I would have no objection to one provided it was a serious debate on the true pros and cons of the matter and not one composed of issues such as straight bananas and its best to hate Johnny Foreigner or some such premise orchestrated by The Sun and its ilk, but I fear that is just how it would be and this is far too much an important issue to have it conducted in that way. I thank you both for an honest and constructive debate on what is for me a real ‘soapbox’ issue. And Distiller, I think you are right on the button. Cheers 😉

Ah well… if you have lived here for 51 years then I am sure you are aware that a large percentage of people in this country would not even give europe a passing thought during a General Election.
There could well be benefits of EU membership and I am sure that the many thousands of EU employees who milk the system daily are very grateful for the chance to do so.
I personally only know one person who thinks being in the EU is a good thing,I think that is quite shocking !!
Personally I would like to see a small proportion of our EU contribution being diverted to properly resurface our country ‘A’ roads (not trunk routes) ,I cannot remember the last time that I was held up by major work on the roads I generally use (Sussex,Hampshire,Wiltshire), the condition of them is absolutely appalling.

rgds baz

I think that your opening few lines say it all;) Thanks to the British media and many of the low calibre politicians of all parties who have run this place for decades, Europe and the EU has been turned into a scapegoat for many, and there are many, of this countries ills. Personally I know very many people who think that being in the EU is a good thing. That may be due to the fact that I work in aviation which in itself may orientate the way that many of us in that industry see Europe and other issues, but maybe that is a topic for another thread. As for the roads argument, well I cant argue with you there. I spend quite a lot of my time in Europe and in Germany in particular and I’m sure I don’t have to extol the virtues of the roads there. Actually where I live in Essex there is a much needed bypass not very far from here with a sign reminding you that the road was built with a grant from the EU, and believe me it was much needed (nasty old EU!) But that was a positive aspect of the Union so not much coverage of the road in the media here. My friend in Germany whom I have known since schooldays has lived there with his German wife for 27 years and they have two children. Although his parents are still here he would never move back. He reckons that the UK is in a relentless and steady decline and really cannot understand the ordinary British persons attitude to the EU, what it does and the benefits it brings and neither can I. In fact on one visit a few years ago there was an exhibition in his home towns square outlining the Euro currency plans….don’t think I ever saw one of those here, apparently these roadshows are common there explaining the policy initiatives of the Union, and these are funded with the national Govts help! Can you imagine that in the UK and the press it would bring?? He also highlights the poor state of the UKs education system and health service as the main reasons for staying put along with the law and order situation here.

I am an unashamed federalist and I make no apologies for that. Having spent much time in Europe the UKs perception of the Union seems sad and at the same time unfathomable and I just don’t get it. IMO we are missing out due to the self serving attitudes of many, but not all, of those who ‘watch over us’ and their media that keeps us all ‘well informed’ The main losers here in the UK will be our children and their children. And as for Norway, they benefit nicely from favourable trading terms and exemption from tariffs from the EU without putting into the ‘kitty’ and maybe without its oil the Norwegian attitude might be very different, and remember the UK helps fund those ‘favours’ to the likes of Norway.

I would be genuinely interested to hear from those who oppose the EU what their vision is for the UK without membership. Thanks.