If you’re reading this thinking my goodness me, he has a bleak and nihilistic outlook on events, you’d be right, I have.

And you’re not alone;)

Some good shots Keith, truly. But I hate that livery..sorry;)

Alas, I feel that attempting to take society back to those traditional values, is doomed to failure. Too many generations of parents, have passed through ‘the system’ now, passing on these ‘modern values’ to their offspring, who in turn, are passing those same ‘values’ on to their own kids, and so on. It’s easy to generalise, and I too recognise, that there are some great parents and kids out there, often facing a daily struggle to ‘hold it together’ and I don’t envy them. It’s not my intention to offend anyone.

Money, and its acquisition, seems to have become the new ‘God’ and I think that modern society reflects that. Only last weekend, whilst waiting at a ‘pelican crossing’ my partner and I overheard a conversation between two obviously well to do women. One was bemoaning the fact, that she had only ‘endured’ five holidays abroad this year. She assured her listener, that she would soon be giving her husband a drubbing about it later. Poor him! This conversation was carried out in front of a young girl who I assume, was her daughter. A lovely example to her I thought, and so the chain of this type of values, is passed on. Ironically, later on, we were walking behind two girls, probably about twelve to fourteen years old. One of them was attempting to make a call on her mobile, and seemed to be having trouble doing it. She then said to her friend, and not in a quiet voice, ‘That f+++++g cow, ain’t topped my f+++++g phone again’ Enough said I think.

I do feel that the media must take its share of the blame for this. There is a certain genre of TV shows these days, you know the ones, ‘Strictly X Factoring whilst Talenting On Ice’ or whatever they’re called. This kind of ‘entertaining’ programme, installs yet another set of values on the young, namely, those based on the premise of an entitlement to instantaneous fame and riches. Witness the huge crowds waiting outside the audition venues. I’m not criticising those kids, wouldn’t many of us do the same, if we were their ages today. Thankfully I’m not, and in today’s society, I wouldn’t want to be. Look at the relentless advertising that people are exposed to these days. These often engender unattainable, and unrealistic portraits of how the advertisers think we should be living, into the minds of some people exposed to it. Which brings us right back to the ‘worshipping of wealth’ thing, its not going away anytime soon, and neither are the often negative factors associated with it.

Aggression, lack of courtesy, and so on, are IMO, allied to it. The pressures on some parents, to provide all those things that this modern society says to our kids ought to have, nay, are ‘entitled to have’ are immense. Some of the pressures are self inflicted, ie: more exotic holidays, bigger and better cars and houses, a mobile phone for every member of the family, along with PCs and flat screen TVs in every kids bedroom No harm in bettering yourself materially, if that’s your thing, but has that been done at the expense of those values mentioned earlier. Remember that woman at the crossing? and that young ‘toilet mouth’ with her mobile phone, some role models!

Well, that’s how I see certain aspects of modern society. I’ll be at variance with some here I know, but isn’t that the fun of debate. Over and out!

At this moment in time, I am undecided as to which way I would vote in a referendum on Europe, if indeed, I would vote at all. Something I would really like to know from the ‘lets get out folk’ is, how will we be affected economically, by leaving the EU? How will our trading patterns be changed? Over the years since our membership began, much has altered. The arrival of economic globalisation has transformed the international landscape. Its beginning to look as though the day of the nation state is fast drawing to a close, so should we be looking at ways to ‘buck the trend’? Are we bigger in or out? I dare say that when, or if, the referendum comes, we will be bombarded with propaganda from both sides, I don’t read newspapers, so they would not persuade me one way or the other.

What does make me a little uneasy, is how the question may be worded on the ballot paper. IMO, wether or not to leave the EU, is a very important and complex matter. I can wave a Union Flag as well as the next man, and frequently have, but the outcome of a vote such as this, will have far reaching consequences for our own countries future, and that of the EU itself. So therefore, is a simple ‘stay in or come out’ voting slip really appropriate? Too many unanswered questions at this stage, well for me at any rate.

I too feel that Brown was handed an ‘economic tar baby’ but I think that it could be argued, that the ‘tar baby’ was partly of his own making, whilst in his post as Chancellor. I think that would have got kudos, for going to the country at the time of his ‘accession’ although I realise that he no obligation to do so. Would he have won the election back then? well who knows. Personally, I think he would have, but only by the ‘skin of his teeth’ IMO, his predecessor knew when to jump ship, but I dare say that others will disagree, and thats fine by me.

Up u until the end of Blair’s second term, I had been a die hard Labour supporter for some 35 yrs. Following that, I voted Lib Dem for a while, but stopped doing so, when they went into coalitiion with fhe Tories. Feeling totally disillusioned with all of them, I no longer vote. I have never voted Tory, and I never will, but I feel that Labour has no room to talk, when they start berating the Tories, ref the economy. It’s thanks in part to Labour, and what I percieve as their flawed economic policies, that we are in this mess today. Sadly, I think our present rulers, are merely the best of a bad bunch.

IMO, neither of the two mainstream parties, can escape responsibity for what’s happened. Under the ‘stewardship’ of the Tories, throughout the 80s, and part of the 90s, credit of all kinds became very easy to get. Banks could not throw money at industry and the public fast enough. IMO, this cannot be blamed purely on ‘the Thatcher miracle’ however I think that her deregulation of the banking sector, has to be part of what we are experiencing today. I guess that as consumers, we must shoulder some blame also. However, as we are still seeing today, bad lending policies by those controlling the banking system, ensured that it would be ‘Joe Public’ and small businesses, that would be picking up a very big part of the tab. Labour, under the ‘leadership’ of Blair, just carried on , by and large, with the economic policies of the previous Tory government, The outcome of adopting those policies, is all too evident today.

To be fair, external pressures by the failure of certain foreign banks, and other financial institutions, and those who run them, must take their share of the blame, as well as their ill deserved, and bloated bonuses.

Where do we go from here? Goodness only knows. As far as I can see, neither Capitalism, or the Socialist Command Economy work. Does the answer lay perhaps, in an ‘economically engineered’ amalgamation of both

I have have no real knowledge of economics, this is just my take on the subject of the thread. So are the Tories telling lies? Possibly, but aren’t they all?

Nice shot. First time I’ve seen one of those. Still prefer my Gulfstreams though;)

Couldn’t care less, one way or the other.

Me neither.