MSR777Some very atmospheric shots there Maikel. I used to visit SPL a lot when I was working for a handling company at STN. Back in the 80s, a group of us would ‘hitch’ a ride on Air UK F27s for a day at SPL (€6 return, who wouldn’t!). In the early visits we would visit what I think was called The Drugstore, which was somewhere near the railway station beneath the terminal. There we would pick up some model airliners not available in the UK at the time. In later times we visited the fantastic World of Wings store, which I hear has gone now. Couple that with lots of time on the observation deck, a beer or two, and a big box of Dutch chips. It doesn’t get much better than that:)
MSR777Barry, many thanks for your kind comments, as ever the thorough gentleman.
Yes, I certainly miss the career, as I’m sure you miss yours. I had expected a few years more before hanging up the uniform for the last time, but the ‘guys and girls’ still stay in touch. I don’t know whats worse, the white stick or figuring out how to master bus timetables.:D
I probably have to own up to not being the most objective animal around, in regard to the LoCos. They are of course a fact of aviation life nowadays, and thats how it is. I am a great believer in us all being shaped by our experiences, and I believe this to be true in both our working and private lives. I guess like many, I originate from an aviation industry that was in some respects, very different, and IMO was an altogether more pleasant industry in which to work, oops, dropped me rose coloured specs again!
I am still firmly convinced that the LoCo scenario, as we presently know it, is going to experience some profound changes in the not so distant future. I think that a major factor in those changes will be fuel related. I would genuinely be interested to hear the views of my learned friends here as to what they think the future may hold for these carriers.
Thinking about it, maybe the above paragraph warrants a new thread. I’ll leave it to mods to rule on this one:)
MSR777ALL this is just fanciful nonsense extracted from the gutter press and ill informed online posts from people with “axes to grind”
Perhaps you and others would like to explain how they get to be Europe’s biggest carrier in passenger numbers if everyone who goes with them wishes they hadn’t?
I have to disagree with you here. I think that your comments are generalising a little too much. I would like to think that my recently ended 29 year career in civil aviation would mean that you would not regard me, and others like me on here, as one of your ‘ill informed online posters’. I’m sure thats not what you meant to imply. As for the ‘gutter press’, well I don’t read daily papers of any kind, I don’t need any press baron/media empire telling me what my opinions ought to be. In my career I’ve had a lot to do with not only Ryanair, but others of that ilk. My opinions of these ‘enterprises’ are based on the experiences that I had by working cheek by jowl with them for quite sometime.
As for getting to be Europe’s biggest carrier? well as I’ve said many times before, its amazing what you can achieve with a little help from this one and that. Do I have an axe to grind? well, as I’m now out of the industry, not really, but it doesn’t change my view, that while I feel that the LoCo business model, and that €1 seat, has indeed ‘transformed’ the civil aviation landscape, IMO its done so at considerable cost to the fabric of the airline industry as a whole. A couple of genuine question that I do have for the LoCo enthusiasts are these: When the spiralling cost of fuel begins to eat away, and very possibly destroy, the foundations of the LoCo business model, how do you see the industry landscape looking in a post LoCo era? and what prospects will there be for those still working in the industry?
As a side note, I wonder how many of those passengers you mention, might have been first timers on these flights, and how many of those would be happy to repeat the exercise. Just a thought, I’m sure theres a survey somewhere with the figures.
MSR777Interflug IL62m
No problem with the action of Pau and to be fair I looked later at their movements….about 9 a day to Paris (both apts) and LYS,so probably could be sustained on those alone.However,from 15-19 Feb inclusive their only international dep is FR to STN.Frankly,I think it’s wishful thinking some other foreign carrier will set up a range of routes without a similar inducement,but we will see.
Whilst not exactly applauding their stand,as I simply don’t share the hatred of Ryanair,I fully support their right to make it.
I DO NOT agree with your assertion other places have lost FR and gained newcomers……..Friedrichshafen,Brescia,Newquay,Stockholm Vasteras are examples where nothing has ever replaced lost FR routes,and there are many others.
Dusseldorf Weeze,Lubeck,Girona.Beauvais as examples have no more than 2 non-FR flights
What would happen to local jobs if they lost the only outfit with the scale of size required?
I have no problem with Ryanair trying to make a go of their business, but I do when their self proclaimed successes have, in most cases, been accomplished on the backs of those damn subsidies, exemptions from this and that, lousy pay and conditions etc.
As for RYR being replaced at certain locations, there have recently been other carriers launching replacement services, for example in Belfast and East Midlands. I believe that other carriers took over certain RYR routes out of MAN and LBA, but I’m quite ready to be corrected on that. As to the provision of jobs at the locations you mention, doesn’t it follow, going back to my previous post, that the operations were deemed not commercially viable and hence had to fold? Cruel though it is, isn’t that how the economic system that I despise so much, the one that is so loudly espoused by MoL and other ‘free market Stalinists (when it suits) is supposed to work? In short, why don’t RYR and other companies like them, that claim to be shining examples of deregulated private enterprise, have the bloody guts to admit publicly when when they go cap in hand to the dreaded state, wherever that state may be, to make their operations viable.
MSR777I think that the authority responsible for operating Pau airport is to be commended in bringing this Ryanair subsidy to an end. As in the other places that RYR has vacated, due to its dubious business practices that have been thwarted by the courts, and its endless hunger for subsidies to sustain its unrealistic fares structure, other carriers are more than happy to step in to take up the potential business that RYR has so petulantly turned its back on. As to speculation on the future of Pau, I think its a little premature to speculate on its future ‘collapse’ as a viable entity simply because one so called low cost carrier decides to walk away when ‘the sun goes in’, and they don’t want to play anymore.
I am not a great fan of the ‘free’ market system, and I never have been. Now as I have always understood it, a company involved in running a business rises and falls as the result of offering a product or service that generates sufficient revenue to sustain itself and those employed by it. This is done in the face of competition from other companies offering the same or similar things. If these companies are not fit to compete, then they fold. Why should these ‘low cost’ airlines be exempt from this premise?, or the banks come to that….no, better not go there! Mr O’Leary, like a good many others who trumpet so loudly their love of a ‘free and unregulated’ business arena, are in no way adverse to coercing state bodies to provide them with the means to carry on and to expand their ‘businesses’. But in turn, they are very quick to turn round and bite the hand that feeds them those subsidies, when they don’t like the terms or changes in the terms, relating to these handouts. So lets see these ‘low cost’, and any other airline come to that, trade solely on the basic premise of charging a realistic, but at the same time, competitive price for the services they supply, without relying on public money to make their business viable. I’m sure that any ‘free market’ enthusiast would agree with me……or would they:diablo:
MSR777I cannot understand why the fact that Ryanair is looking at Russian Chinese airliners is reported as a seismic shock. This makes perfect sense, there was a time when Brazil was not considered and now look at how Embraer is selling.
Of course the big challenge is finding who will pay for the granting of airworthiness certification for operations in Europe ?
They will probably pay for the certifications by adding to the cost of the uniform fee that they charge the crews!:)
MSR777The Wikipedia page on the Gulfstream I describes a G.IC with a 3.2m stretch 5 conversions by Gulfstream ….are you thinking of the Canadian stretch to the CV-580?
Yes, I must have been thinking of the Convair, thanks for taking the time to look up this info.
Keith, that is one beautiful lady:)
MSR777Very nice image Neil. I can’t bear the thought of a Gulfstream being parted out:(
Have any of you king people got a pic of the stretched derivative of the G1? I believe it was a Canadian company that converted existing airframes. I’m not aware of who operated the relatively small number completed. I could of course, be imagining the whole thing!:)
MSR777As I’ve said before, these charges are just a minuscule part of the racket that these so called “low cost” airlines have to run. This is because the fares that they charge do not reflect the true cost of the operation. These fares can only be charged on the backs of paying unrealistic prices to their service providers, leading to poor wages and conditions for the employees, the various subsidies, discounts, local ‘deals’ etc, offered by various authorities on their route networks. These subsidies have, on more than one occasion, been the subject of court judgement against them, principally RYR I’m afraid.
In fairness to these ‘airlines’, passengers really need to get their collective heads around the ethos of these “carriers”. They have to realise that the fares charged are not capable of keeping the ‘airline’ afloat on their own. It therefore follows that they have to provide other sources of revenue to make ends meet. IMO these passengers have no one to blame but themselves in finding that they are caught up in this booking fee scam, after all its not as though its a state secret, its just one of the many little ‘add ons’ that give
them those wonderful ‘cheap fares’. Don’t like it?……don’t use ’em.
MSR777I wonder what the timeframe will be for this new project. I would have thought that with things as they presently are at Boeing, attaching new engines to the 737 airframe would be the best option at this time. I wonder if the powers that be at Boeing have decided that the 737 is all ‘tweaked out’ and that the all new design is the way to go.
MSR777I once flew on one of these things some years ago when it was chartered by Air Exel operating a STN-MST sector. It was one of the most claustrophobic and noisy aircraft I had ever flown on. The inflight ‘breakfast’ was on trays placed on small bean bags that we had to put on our laps. I would not ever consider the thought of another flight on one. A b***y awful aircraft.
Condolences to all involved and their families.
MSR777Newforest, To my shame, I also thought that was a Gulfstream at a very brief glance as when I saw the image, I was trying to dial the phone at the same time. Nice pics Keith.
The other day whilst ‘channel surfing’, I came across a Roger Moore era episode of The Saint which showed him alighting from a Jet Ranger. I was so surprised, how ling have those been around?
MSR777Do it if you can Kabir, I don’t think you’ll regret it, and a sense of humour will help. I don’t know how the flights would work from your location, but don’t let that put you off:)
MSR777Well, Pyongyang/Sunan Airport was a little quiet on the morning that we arrived, in fact ours was the only inbound flight for that day, and this was confirmed by our guide, although we did see an Air Koryo Il76 land as we were boarding our coach to the city centre. The terminal was bright and clean, but it doesn’t seem to get a lot of use. The immigration staff were friendly enough and the process was quickly handled. I’ll stick to the aviation side of the trip, so as to stay on the right side of the mods;)
On departure day we obviously got a look at the departures hall. Again it was bright and cheerful, but the terminal is, by western’ standards, quite small. There was a duty free shop selling PDRK souvenirs and books as well as alcohol, some of it ‘home grown’. I treated myself to a copy of a book about the life of ‘The Great Leader’, (Kim Il Sung to his friends) and a DPRK flag!
As I said earlier, the Air Koryo aircraft look good and well maintained, even the older craft like the Il18s, one of which has a forward freight door, and the An24s. We had an internal flight on a Tu134A, which seemed to me no worse than the Soviet era Aeroflot machines. As we boarded our Il62 back to Beijing, we were actually sharing the ramp with a Tu134 heading for Macau, a busy day for Sunan:) Onboard the Il62, the catering was no worse than a full meal as served on a quality charter flight, and believe me you didn’t go hungry! Beer and wines are available on board, as are soft drinks. Our Tu134 catering was some biscuits and lemonade, but it was a short sector. If you get the chance to visit the DPRK, don’t pass it up, and just think you could get a ride on the new Tu204!
MSR777The spite and bile you spew at Ryanair is quite comical. In your blinkered view of the world there seems to be no other low cost carrier, and you put the blame at Ryanairs door and no one elses.
It seems that transgressions by flag carriers are dismissed as things of the past, yet god forbid Ryanair does anything wrong!Nope, I shall reply no more as I know someone with such bitter and blinkered views will not listen to any argument, no matter how rational they are.
It would be a shame if you were to ‘shut up shop on this topic, if too many of us did it I think the debate would die…..I’m not being ‘sarky’ mate.;)
Ryanair has long been a lively topic on here, with each of us passionate about our respective corners. I’m not afraid to air my views on these LoCo carriers because I don’t like them…..any of them, and thats no secret on here, so I don’t use them. But a lively thread IMO, is made up of people with a wide spectrum of views on every topic, along with lots of ways to put our twopenneth in. I can’t speak for anyone else on here, but I enjoy threads which get ‘colourful’ from time to time, and sometimes I’ve have to admit I’ve learnt things from what sometimes is someone else’s vitriol. For me its all part of the fun, and long may it be so. So please, no more hiding views under bushels! Long live lively debate! Sorry guys…rant over;)
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