AndyGOn the subject of Griffons, anyone have an idea how much that clutch of 8 or so Griffon 58’s which were crated and bagged were sold for each recently?
Were they zero timed, new or just used?
AndyG[QUOTE=Lindy’s Lad;1132423]IThe Shackleton Association were in talks with BAe Systems regarding a production run of ten full sets of spars. Costs could be covered by selling the remaining 8 sets (less AA’s shack and their own also at Coventry)
QUOTE]
8 full sets?/ š®
1 for the MK3 in SA, two for AA…
1 for Just Jane?:) (was shack spar billet which was used for PA474 IIRC?)
1 for Mr Weeks?
Thats five I can take a stab at, anyone else looking for a set of 4 engine Avro spars, or is there a special offer on 8 sets at the moment?
AndyGIf it was a skid and the ‘blob’ was a consumable, wouldn’t the part number have been worn off, I’d have thought the part number would have gone on the top.
Any chance of scratching the ‘blob’ toe get an idea of the material?
AndyGIs the blob made of lead? As it hasn’t corroded I assume its non-ferrous anyway.
Not being familiar with tail skids, are there any tail skids which were fitted with replaceable non-ferrous wear pads?
If the blob is a lead weight, couldn’t this be a mass balance from a large control surface i.e. Aileron?
AndyGMy friend Paul, depicted in the attached shots, would appreciate help in identifying an item he was given when visiting a scrap-yard a few years back. He was told by the yard operators that they believed it came from an āassault gliderā. There were many other examples of the item scattered round the site.
Our initial thoughts were that it may be part of a skid mechanism but itās very heavy and looks more agricultural. We took it to London Colney recently to compare it with data on the Horsa, but found no conclusive match. It didnāt look like any element of the under-fuselage main skid. The Horsa design did have a telescopic tail prop, but I canāt find any close-up photos or detailed drawings of that specific component to check if it may be associated with that.
Anyone out there got any ideas if it is aviation related and if so what itās off?
The yard was in the vicinity of Shawbury and at that time contained a huge freight pannier once fitted to an H.P. Halton – surely something worth saving?
[Tim
I assume that the ‘blob’ on the end is non ferrous and possibly made of lead? (scratch to check, should shine brightly)
If so, then I’d suggest that it may be a control surface mass balance arm and therefore of aviation origin.
AndyGHave a word with this guy,
He may be interested in making duplicates?
He’s building a full size cockpit replica for a simulator only, though the components he’s making are all to original drawings and material issues asside would probably fucntion in the air as well.
He’s a genius and the parts are works of art. Most of them function as per the real thing.
AndyGOddly enough I had already done just that, only to find a statement
‘we can still make it’
Just wondering what it was you have read.
Moggy
Patience Patience Moggy, we all know you are drooling at the prospect of seeing a very fine piece of historic British aero engineering in the skies once more.
Don’t worry it’ll happen.
AndyGSeems odd to have gone to such lengths to create a beautiful replica but then not put any armament in it – or signs of armament such as gun ports, etc.
Or have I missed something?
I understand that the terms of the design certification under the German approval body precludes the fitting of armaments or the means to install armaments.
There is a pre-drilled bulkhead plate on the spar webs where a ‘dummy’ cannon barrel may be mounted in the correct location if desired, though not a through hole for a complete weapon. I’m sure the cowlings would feature a similar type of practical detail.
Flug Werk and their design team have gone to incredible lengths to make these airframes as accurate and authentic as practicable within the constraints of the available contemporary engines today.
I found out recently from the design team that the original undercarriage legs had a design life of about 30 hours which was more than adequate for the airframe/pilot life expectancy at that time. Flug Werk has re-designed and manufactured the legs and the internals of their main gear components to modern standards and materials with off the shelf seals and components thus allowing increased safety in operation and a ‘normal’ service life. They also have engineered an emergency extension system where as the originals relied on gravity alone with de-clutching the electric drive motors.
A few more pics including an A8 in the production line.
AndyGA few photos of one of the FW D9’s from a recent visit to Germany.
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[ATTACH]151466[/ATTACH]
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Very nice aeroplane indeed. Lucky man who gets to keep one of these in his hangar.
AndyGIs that an H2S transceiver mounting being fitted aft of the bomb doors?
AndyGFor rust removal – as opposed to freeing off corroded fasteners – I’ve found the electrolytic process incredibly effective. Run ‘electrolytic rust removal’ into Google and see what comes up.
This is from a US site, and says it all:
http://www.instructables.com/id/E17UQMY28PEQ6T2A5Z?ALLSTEPS
William
Might be prudent to note this in case anyone is thinking of dipping potentially flight worthy structural components into an electrolytic process.
Hydrogen Embrittlement of Steel – A Cautionary Note
Atoms of hydrogen absorbed by steel are known to enter the lattice of iron atoms and prevent the layers from sliding past each other easily. This causes the steel to become more brittle and liable to crack. The absorption of hydrogen by steel is a familiar problem in industry which arises during steel refining, heat treatment, acid pickling or electro-plating. It can also happen as a result of simple corrosion. The standard remedy is to bake the objects in ovens to drive out the absorbed hydrogen (200Ā°C for four hours would be a typical regime in industry). The simple passage of time is also known to cause loss of hydrogen from steel. Hydrogen embrittlement may occur to some extent during electrolytic de-rusting. Alternatively, baking the object in the oven for hour or so at about 150Ā°C (300Ā° F) should remove absorbed hydrogen. Note that this baking temperature is low enough to leave the temper of most steels unaffected. Since hydrogen embrittlement is reversible, it should not cause too much anxiety.
AndyGBio-de-ruster… Hmmm, it’s not black and sweet-smelling is it?
The old trick for removing rust (as opposed to freeing objects) was a strong solution of treacle (that’s right, thick, black and in tins labelled “Tate & Lyle”).
My chemistry is too far in my past to describe the exact mechanism, but something in molasses chelates iron salts in solution – ie removes rust from the outside of it. I suspect it works on other metals too, but I’ve never tried it.
From various people I have talked to I think the key to freeing things up is to use liberal qualities of patience, whatever else you use on them. Give it time to work its way in.
Adrian
No its a clear thin yellow solution.
These type of newish products work through selective chelation at a pH of 6.1 to 7.0 (neutral). Selective chelation is a process in which a large synthetic molecule forms a bond with metals and holds them in solution. Most chelating agents bind many different metals. The active ingredient in these liquids bonds to iron exclusively. It can remove iron from iron oxide,but is too weak to remove iron from steel because the iron is held much more strongly.
Will remove applied oxide coatings but not anodising.
Various UK suppliers with various trade names.
A lot less hassle than electrolysis and at the end of the day penetrating fluids don’t remove the source of the seizure i.e. the expanded corrosion oxides that jam things in the first place. You still have to deal with the rust once you have got the bits apart. Acids are nasty and on fragile thin parts with multiple materials may not give good results. Hydrogen embrittlement can also result from use of acids I understand, which is not good if you want as much of the original material properties to remain in your restored components.
If you have never tried a bio-deruster type solution on corrosion before I promise you that you will not be dissapointed at all with astounding results.
I dropped a pair of badly seized heavily corroded pliers into the solution when I first tried it, next morning there were a pair of free moving dark grey useable pliers to behold. Pitting will always remain though the entrained oxide will dissapear.
AndyGDear all
There must be a lot of knowledge on this forum on getting seized up relics apart.
Does anyone out there have any special formula other than WD40? An engineer I know swears by paraffin although I haven’t tried this myself.
I would expect the ideal penetrating solution would have a mild anti-corrosion action as well.
Any advice out there….?
Cheers
If its a seized component comprising alloys and ferrous components, please consider dipping in a bath of one of the new “Bio de-ruster” solutions available. This product will only remove corrosion and leave the base metal completely intact and a nice uniform grey. Historic pitting remains, but the oxides within the pits will fall away. Alloys are untouched as well as paint, chrome, rubber. Its an alkaline solution though very very gentle, doesn’t burn skin and has little odour. I use it for restoring old iron woodworking planes and components. The results so far are stunning and a seized shafts and pins release themselves due to the oxides causing the seizure dissolving. The solution is re-useable many many times as a bonus. An overnight soak is usually enough though heavily corroded components benefit from a periodic agitation with a nail brush or similar.
AndyGIf you look at the one on the other side though, it looks a more conventional angle? Perhaps its an optical illusion after all?
AndyGIt gets even more confusing if you look at their website. The Duxford machine is actually a genuine A-9 rebuilt using one of their kits which makes it either a genuine Luftwaffe machine or a new German machine with a few bits added.
“Further on, a US based client undertook the restoration of the remains of an original Fw 190 A9 (!), by using a Flug Werk supplied FW 190 A8/N kit. The aircraft is currently based in Duxford/UK. The following photos display the aircraft in the markings, selected by the client him self. “
Even if its just a few bits added I’m not going to lose sleep over that at all… are you? Nice period additions I’d have thought?
Why bring data plates into it DaveM2? A new Fw 190 with a Chinese engine and other German(US) legislative required structural changes to prevent armaments fit, is hardly a candidate for a ‘thin but robust’, yet another boring Spitfire data plate restoration?
Anyone not looking forwards to seeing a Fw 190 fly at Duxford? I bloody well am, along with the brand new built tropical filter Spitfire replica.
Perhaps we should organise a Flypast Forum armchair provenance experts group attack team and sneak in under cover of darkness with a JCB and dismember it for not being good enough in your eyes, daring to appear at Duxford without ‘Provenance and Paint Committee’ approval and not having the right paint scheme or engine…?
There is a prevailing under current of noise on this forum that appears desperately keen to see Fw fail in some way. Give them a chance please.:(
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