LOL so when RBE2 lacks dual mode datalink EF> Rafale, but when Asraam has no datalink vs Mica IR, datalink is “less useful”.
Nice
Depends on the range of the missile and the seeker. Meteor is capable of real world intercepts at well over 100km and has a narrow-beam ARH seeker, so after a minute or more of flight time, that narrow band seeker needs an update and the advantage of the two-way link is to inform the firing aircraft when the ARH seeker has lock allowing them to go fully defensive and evade anything coming back the other way. In the case of ASRAAMs and MICA IRs with wide-angle IIR seekers and real world ranges of 30km head-on, I doubt an update during the few seconds of flight between firing and automatic target acquisition is very useful, especially when the firing aircraft will point the missile towards the target anyway. The CAMM (M/L) on the other hand is based on the same missile, is vertically launched and has a narrow-beam ARH seeker, so knowing where to aim that beam is necessary.
nope i first said “way over 10” and then 20. Any contradiction?
It’s now ‘over 20nm’ IIRC, so what will it be next year? Over 30nm perhaps? We’re also arguing about the details of a non-shot here, i.e. not a live fire. I could nail a domestic cat to the pylon of a Tucano, detect the approximate position of Mirage on my six, and simulate a launch, and still have demonstrated the same capability as this test did.
No, the details are important.
If you don’t know the basics don’t begin to think you can arrive and attempt to lecture people and present your opinion and beliefs as worthwhile.
That in itself is insulting.
Seriously? He didn’t even specify ‘Mirages’ or ‘2000s’, he just said -9s? That’s a little too cryptic for non-Dassault enthusiasts. Just because I didn’t know that it doesn’t mean I don’t know far more than you about some other things, okay?
Mirage 2000-9 lukos.
Yet again you show how little you comprehend. Just stop embarrassing yourself.
Well forgive me for not knowing the ins and outs of legacy Mirages and the UAE AF.:rolleyes:
People are once again confusing “Don’t want to” with “Can’t.”
Austria is perfectly capable of fielding a fully equipped air force suitable for her needs, if she decides to do so.
To date the politicians have not seen the benefit of running under a ticket that says full funding for the armed forces and the people have not created any demand for such. Thus the funds are not allocated to support such.Sadly the peoples of Europe and their representatives have decided that defence is not a priority and thus are happy to see public funds spent on things other than defence.
This will all change when somebody like putain is allowed to keep pushing the boundaries until they cease being able to understand where the boundaries are and something kicks off, then the people will be demanding to know why more wasn’t spent on defence before it was too late…
You actually make some good points when you’re not being insulting. The UK armed forces have definitely been starved for some time and have major capability gaps, which won’t all be plugged for at least 5 years and even then maritime reconnaissance will have a hole.
Cruise missiles like storm shadow will help F-35 strike from much longer distance than it’s combat radius
For example , F-35 have combat radius of about 1200 km, so with weapons like Gbu-12, SDB, SDB II, Spear it can only at ttack targets that located maximum of 1300 km from the airbase or aircraft carrier
By contrast weapon like JASSM-ER, Storm shadow allow it to strike target located 1700 – 2200 km from the airbase
Another valid reason, agreed. I don’t think I’m actually disagreeing with anything you’re saying so far.
Unless you have specific impulse of both engines (which I doubt for some reason) any range estimation is pointless, and even more when your estimation comes in contradiction of all other estimation and tests already done.
What tests would they be then? I’ve pointed out obvious physical factors affecting range, like weight and drag.
NASAMS range is quoted to be 25 km. Does it imply that AMRAAM and AMRAAM have similar ranges ?
I’m afraid no.
SLAMRAAM is quoted way higher than that – 33km. There are several versions of the AMRAAM, so it depends on the variant used.
MICA range in a high altitude, probably supersonic shot, against a fighter target, inferior to 40 km ?
I said medium altitude.
I’m afraid your guesstimation is totally off. Considering there has been a shot against a drone at 70 km (MICA EM fired by Taiwanese 2000-5Ei), I wouldn’t be surprised if its maximal kinematic range was around 70 – 80 km (maybe more, considering a lofted shot, etc.. as i don’t know the Taiwan test parameters).
From Jane’s however, ASRAAM range is quoted to be 25 km.
Pffft and only 15km by RAF LOL, however it’s stated at 50km here, which sounds a lot closer to the truth given the 166mm diameter. Maximum range has never been tested.
Most places also stated MICA range at 50km but it all depends on launch and target parameters. From a level intercept at 30,000ft, I suspect <30km is nearer the truth. The longest AIM-120C shot was only 21.6 miles (35km), with a stated range of >100km. The reality of real world ranges make the datalink less useful. The radar seeker of the EM version is certainly an advantage but an AMRAAM or Meteor would be used in those cases anyway, because by 30-40km they probably have more residual energy and better performance.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/mica-specs.htm
SPECTRA range actually matters to give the missile precise enough data for initial mid course updates.
At 7.8nm the missile seeker with 90deg OBS will see the aircraft as soon as it turns, no mid-course update is needed. Why try make a normal OTS shot seem spectacular?
You’ve been given the answer to that. Choosing to ignore it to continue with your own agenda does you no favours.
What answer was that? Mission risk and planning I accept, penetration vs GBU-24, uncertain. Either way EW capabilities played no part because the Libyan ADS wasn’t particularly useful to put it mildly.
UAE 9 what?
Actually, it is the words “replace the Captor system” that make me think it includes Captor-M and -E.
No such plan exists or has ever been mentioned anywhere. Captor-X will remain the name of the Typhoon radar. The Captor-E is the new AESA radar, there is no other Typhoon AESA radar, hence why there’s only one possible interpretation of this text.
Considering they share the same back end
They don’t. Captor-E is getting a new back-end hence the vastly expanded capabilities and the length of development time.
awesome, whats up with this ?
It’s a hydrofoil, speeds up to 150mph and then the aircraft is released and takes off.:highly_amused::D
It might be they could if they had bought a light single-engined fighter in the first place.
Projected operating costs are always lower than real operating costs. According to this they have T2s not T1s. 15 fighters hardly constitutes an airforce though, in fact anything less than 60-80 will cause you operational problems. Training still costs the same to develop whether you’re training 15 people or 150 people, then you have the relatively higher costs of purchasing smaller quantities of spares, effect of downtime etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_Air_Force#Current_inventory
the way I read it is that it is the Captor successor that is aimed at having these capabilities, not the Captor
That’s completely correct, the Captor-E is due to replace Captor and will provide these capabilities. No other radar is planned to date although a further expanded version of Captor-E is planned by the UK only. Captor itself is not AESA and definitely can’t have such capabilities.
Hellfire missiles have millimeter wave radar seekers. The firing procedure is literally pop up from cover, lock on target, fire, pop down under cover and these days they can fire from a defilade. SAMs would have a difficult engagement problem against a target that behaves that way. If you have better missiles than the Hellfire i.e. greater range electro optical seeker with fire and forget capability the engagement problem for a SAM only gets worse and the target is harder to defend since you can’t jam a camera very easily. Fighters are another story but as I said before attack helicopters depend on air cover and the ability of your fighters to engage them in a really effective way depends on you getting air superiority or better yet air supremacy and I don’t see either the NATO air forces nor the RUAF being a pushover when it comes to gaining air supremacy. Another thing is that against fighters, attack helicopters aren’t as defenceless as people think. I remember reading about the USAF trying their hand at simulated combat where they sent fighters down into the lower airspace layers to hunt down gun ships simulating Russian Mil-24/35s and being rather surprised at the exchange rates they got. It’s not only that the helicopters are actually quite able to defend themselves if they have enough of situational awareness, but also that that part of the battlefield airspace is crawling with SAMs and AAA and fighters, unlike AH-64s and Ka-52s, can’t just pop into a depressions in the terrain to hide. I’m not saying that attack helicopters are invulnerable but they aren’t the sitting ducks they sometimes look like when you use them in nests of insurgency like Iraq where the Americans were lucky that the insurgents do not seem to have had access to large quantities of state-of-the-art MANPADS never mind mobile tactical SAM systems or a BUK launcher like the Russian paratroopers and irregulars in the East-Ukraine have. I expect the Iraqis would have given their eye teeth and a few other things as well for a few hundred SA-24s.
Depends how high their radar mast is. MMW radar is prone to good jamming though. A rearward-looking laser riding missile like Vikhr-M, less so, but it does have the disadvantage of not being FAF, range 12km. Depends how fighter attack the gunships, if done correctly the only worry is other fighters and SAMs. The idea is not to go into lower airspace and use missiles from range. Expensive AAMs are probably the wrong too for the job as well, when an AGM like a Maverick or Brimstone will do the job hansomely from 30,000ft, even a Vihkr-M from an Su-25 will, or Kh-25 for that matter. In fact helicopters are for the main best treated as ground targets from a fighter’s perspective. Direct top attacks with cannon fire are generally non-counterable from the helicopter’s perspective too, since point upwards for a long time is pretty impossible. Russian paras? I know someone speaking English was caught by a journo in Ukraine.
Iraqis had plenty of SAMs in 1991 but nothing really modern and by 2003 that was mostly gone. They had a good few ATGMs though, a few M1s destroyed but the best they managed on Challenger IIs was damaging the optics.
OTT, but I can’t help wondering why a French-speaker translates manoeuvre into USian, when the standard English (no-US0 spelling of the word is exactly the same as in French.
And this is a UK-based forum.
Have French schools started teaching US English, or is it a case of use of having to use US English professionally?
Internet spell-checker default is the culprit I suspect.
Hilarious. You say the ASRAAM ha s superior kinematic performance than MICA (which is ********) yet you consider the lack of datalink on ASRAAM, rendering longer distance shots against maneuvring targets impossible, as an advantage. Where’s the coherence in this ?
Why do you consider the kinematic performance claim BS? It has less wing area than MICA, marginally greater internal volume, a dual burn motor and 25kg less weight to hall. The range of the MICA VL is 20km, the range of CAMM (L/M) is 25km and that’s only 10% longer than the ASRAAM an is weighed down by a datalink. I could also mention CAMM-ER at this point but I’ll leave that topic. It’s kinematically the best short range AAM on the market. What’s the realistic engagement range at medium altitudes, i.e typical intercept altitudes, 25,000-36,000ft. I’m willing to bet it’s <40km for either missile, and probably <30km, making the target almost within seeker range from the get-go. Then you have LOAL target acquisition capability and a 90deg OBS. The R-27ET can also be fired in PPS mode without even having the benefit of the ASRAAM’s advanced seeker and INS strapdown.
On the seeker – where is’ it said that 7,8 NMI is the max range for the MICA IR seeker ? For your information, MICA IR is employed as IRST on Mirage 2000-5F and will be on Rafale after the removal of the FSO IR channel. I think it says enough on the MICA IR seeker capability.
7.8nm was the reported range of this OTS shot, I imagine that’s well within seeker range and that was my point, it’s nothing to do with Spectra accuracy.
Super 530D already had dual burn motor – so does the MICA.
MICA also retains the aerodynamic configuration of the Super 530 with long fuselage fins, providing lift and allowing the missile to maneuver well after the burn phase ends.
The peak manoeuvrability is 50g and it’s most manoevrable during burn phase due to TVC, therefore manoevrability afterwards is lower than 50g, single burn motor.
Now Lukos, get your facts right. You’re the only fisherman here.
I’m not the one who keeps trying to make the fish I caught bigger with every new telling of its story.
Nope, you are confusing receivers and emitters. Spectra allows 360° reception (DRFM) and emission (now with GaN modules on B301 and M01 test planes, should be implemented in 2018 with F3-R standard presently in test at CEAM)
@lukos as i said, you can easily find the brazilian pilot on twitter or facbook , just ask him or sh.. up please.
I’d be very glad to see his reaction if you were to call him fisherman…
Ah, fisherman’s tales again. I’d rather just point out your continuous adjustment of range claims and SPECTRA geolocation accuracy.