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Wings43

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  • in reply to: Heads Up – "Red Tails" – Sunday 22/3/15 #871536
    Wings43
    Participant

    All very interesting – a few pros but mainly cons. Surely any film succeeds or fails on its artistic merit, regardless of a “target audience”, other than for children or adults.

    I agree they should but if artistic merit was what this forum went by then we would have whole threads about 633 squadron, a film with little artistry about it – just nice flying sequences, a great soundtrack and a couple of very quotable lines. The main narrative, plot and acting is just as risible as red tails.

    I’m no fan of red tails, I just find the arguments against it as being full of double standards. Someone mentioned the Battle of Britain and the dialogue and acting. It has some great moments but some of it (Plummer and York) is melodrama at it’s worse.

    The truth here is that some people here enjoy a film about people with aviation as the backdrop, others just want a film full of flying sequences and nothing else. That’s fine but let’s not pretend otherwise. It’s a big like the thread on aviation art, there are those who think a particular painting of a hurricane (I’m thinking of the one in that thread with the dodgy canopy) is bad art because it has a badly rendered canopy whilst others will see it as being bad art because it’s corny clichéd and chocolate box fodder.

    in reply to: Heads Up – "Red Tails" – Sunday 22/3/15 #871544
    Wings43
    Participant

    The one possible exception to my list is The Aviator, although it’s not strictly about aviation, more about the person (Howard Hughes).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Aviator_%282004_film%29

    But then you could argue that a film like dark blue world is more about the experience of Czech pilots and the context of their postwar treatment rather than being a film about aeroplanes?

    The aviator is a film featuring lots of aviation but is certainly not about aeroplanes. I think some here would just like 90 mins of well filmed air battles, sadly for them it is not likely to happen.

    in reply to: YAM Nightshoot #458452
    Wings43
    Participant

    Looks like an interesting event but why do so many of these night shoot events go to so much effort and then light the aircraft so harshly. A few well positioned lights with some subtle coloured filters would work much better than direct floodlights aimed straight at the subject

    in reply to: Action or neutral image? #871955
    Wings43
    Participant

    You’d never see those in a serious art collection.

    I’ve seen plenty of paintings depicting war that are not too dissimilar to that in galleries across the country. Plenty. Just because art galleries arnt full of war paintings doesn’t mean there is an agenda to not feature them only that there is x amount wall space and other things to show too.

    Galleries across the uk are full of battle scenes like this and if you go to the Tate you’ll find modern interpretations like those of Paul Nash.

    For those who want to just see war paintings then try the IWM galleries which have some superb work.

    in reply to: Action or neutral image? #872562
    Wings43
    Participant

    Just a thought. Since when have images of military aircraft been seen as politically incorrect. Right or wrong, There are just as many violent images in history books, paintings and films as there always been. This idea of a PC police doesn’t really hold true in this context and is a bit of a red herring. I stand by my comment that’s it’s more to do with temperament and your own taste.

    I enjoy aviation museums and air shows and a display by a spitfire. I fully understand it is a war machine but I certainly would like a painting of it strafing a train on my wall. Someone else might. I’d bet there are more people out there who’d like that famous painting of the spitfire coming out of the clouds at what looks like dusk. We’ve all seen it time and time again.

    in reply to: Heads Up – "Red Tails" – Sunday 22/3/15 #872591
    Wings43
    Participant

    Ps…

    Bob, I’m no teenager but I watched the whole film. I thought it was corny, hung oh and cliched and thought it wasn’t aimed at me. I did however spend a good few hours reading more about these airman to add to the modest amount I knew already. By that token Lucas succeeded in a way.

    in reply to: Heads Up – "Red Tails" – Sunday 22/3/15 #872599
    Wings43
    Participant

    Bob,

    I’m not missing the point about special effects of the time not being up to scratch. The effects could have been done better in parts. It may have been beyond budget but there films of that period which have incredibly convincing effects.

    You say it’s a poor film that fails to entertain but on what basis do you state this. Have you talked to it’s target audience? Or is it your opinion? Your opinion is important but unless you are in your teens you arnt the target audience. I doubt you’d enjoy sitting through two hours of Peppa Pig and yet we wouldn’t blame the filmmakers from not making a good enough TV show. If just wasn’t aimed at you!

    in reply to: Action or neutral image? #872602
    Wings43
    Participant

    If this is true it might not be political correctness but maybe the temperament of the painting and how it fits in to where it will be displayed. If it’s going in a living room (all magnolia and soft furnishings) then a painting of a lancaster at a dispersal in the morning must will always go better than one dropping high explosives or being shot to pieces by a night fighter.

    If political correctness drove peoples viewing tastes they wouldn’t flock to see action and war films at the cinema – it’s just more likely that it may fit in better. Maybe it’s also destined for a living room that is a shared space and used by a wife and children too.

    In answer to your question, I’d rather have the image of the aircraft that shows the form of the aircraft yet I’m still fully aware what it was designed for.

    in reply to: Heads Up – "Red Tails" – Sunday 22/3/15 #872614
    Wings43
    Participant

    Scotavia,

    I’ve not seem the mini series but your description of its tone would make sense considering its audience.

    I realise that this may seem a little flippant but the criticism of Red Tails in terms of its hung ho, comic book style is a bit like criticising Thomas the Tank Engine for not fully demonstrating proper operating procedures on a branch line. 🙂

    in reply to: Heads Up – "Red Tails" – Sunday 22/3/15 #872712
    Wings43
    Participant

    A lot of posters here seem to be missing the point about the intended audience of this film and instead only focus on the same old worn out criticisms. The film is for a younger generation. Isn’t this a good thing to get young people interested in history? If this hooks them they have a little more chance of delving into the factual detail that the film has used (sometimes lightly) as it’s basis.

    Contributors to this forum hark to films such as Battle of Britain and 633 squadron as if they were pinnacles of filmmaking. Both have their high points but some of the technical points of both films are as dire as some of less successful cgi moments in red tails.

    Remember, Red Tails was made by George Lucas’ own admission to create new positive heroes for young children in the US, particularly those of African American backgrounds.

    I don’t love the film myself but there are much much worse films out there. Posters on here don’t seem to get that the reason the film is a bit comic book in style is because that’s what was intended.

    Films like the Dam Busters ( a film I like greatly ) don’t seem to attract this level of criticism and yet off the top of my head I can list the following bendings of truth or dodgy effects

    – awful model work on crashing lanc

    – crude explosions on dam scenes

    – the origin of the height fixing lamps

    – Gibsons portrayal at odds with nearly every other portrayal by those who knew him

    – bombs ( well this was censored still so understood )

    – Gibsons crew following him to 617 in the way portrayed

    Does any of the above matter? Not much in my opinion but no one harps on about it!

    in reply to: Handley Page Halifax Project Update #879003
    Wings43
    Participant

    One thing I don’t understand that maybe someone here might know… If the ditched Halifax isn’t found and raised will the project continue. It seems like an awful lot of hard work and preparation is going on in anticipation of the Halifax being found but presumably a plan B exists should it not.

    Would be fascinated to know.

    in reply to: Dresden raid – 70 years on #901559
    Wings43
    Participant

    Mods, please tell me how to delete my account. I want nothing more to do with this forum. Can you delete everything?

    Circus,

    if I have anyway added to your feelings then you have my apologies and I hope you stay. I shouldn’t have bitten.

    best wishes

    in reply to: Dresden raid – 70 years on #901565
    Wings43
    Participant

    From my limited experience of Commando comics, I don’t think the Dresden raid was ever featured.

    Robert,

    for clarification, my comment about the commando comics was in reference to their black and white view of conflict which was entertaining stuff as a youngster.

    very best wishes

    in reply to: Dresden raid – 70 years on #901720
    Wings43
    Participant

    Wings don’t bite mate John is arguing with himself as we speak
    Regards
    Jon

    Jon,

    you are right, and to my discredit I did bite! My apologies to the originator of the thread and thank you for posting the article into which a lot of hard work must have gone. I will try and set aside some time to read it.

    b wishes and apologies to the others who were dragged into viewing this nonsense.

    in reply to: Dresden raid – 70 years on #901722
    Wings43
    Participant

    All. Please Stop.

    sure Ill leave it there.

    My last word is that Mr Green should consider all points of view. I’d happily consider his out of respect if he wasn’t so black and white about everything and didn’t use terms like
    ‘Whining liberal hand wringers’ as some preemptive strike to paint all opposing arguments as tainted by some unworthy background.

    Everyone including Mr Green has the right to a viewpoint and shouldn’t be shut out.

Viewing 15 posts - 406 through 420 (of 432 total)