God your either dense or brainwashed.

Neither system can intercept ICBM’s from Russia. Been down this road before. This is Putin firing up the base for the “election”.

And even IF any of those systems were even marginally effective against Russian ICBM, there is the question of sheer numbers. You think any of these theater missiles defense systems have a 100% intercept rate?

It’s like god – let’s ignore reality and buy into this saber rattling that’s been going on (from both sides), it’s only nuclear weapons.

Stop the BS. The export version is limited to 250 Km. No need to lie.

Even the Black Shaheen is credited with a longer distance. Exactly where does it state an export version has a 250km range (or are you basically talking about the Black Shaheen). If so, nowhere does it state that is the version Egypt is getting. It states SCALP EG. willing to believe the defense reporting was incorrect. Really doesn’t change the fact that the 250km Black Shaheen quoted range is BS. Which is why after last sale US-France-UK discussed an average range, not low- low flight profile for compliant export missiles.

P.S. have to love how several posters are sticking to MBDA quoted range fully aware they are B.S. And play dumb like this issue never came up before (UAE, ahem). Not to mention fully knowing that the reasons MBDA understates the range of both the SCALP and Black Shaheen is to make a half hearted attempt to look like they aren’t exporting a weapon class voluntary signatories of MTCR attempt to limit.

How many articles and studies would our friends defending this weapon export deal like to refresh their memory from the last time this was an issue? May be embarrassing to those who want to claim this is over US wanting to prevent Rafale sales, IMHO.

Apologize for off topic on Rafale thread. But done with Halloweene pulling out the US boogeyman, and playing fast and loose with information constantly.

MTCR- while voluntary and up to the export nation to evaluate uses of exported delivery systems, a sale to a state like Egypt would be exactly the type missile tech transfer the treaty was meant to prevent.

Yes SCALP is a cat I. UK and France like to quote range as under 300km. That is in a low level flight profile. The treaty to renegotiated after the Black Shaheen sale to be average range. UK sale of storm shadow to Saudi’s could be seen as an exemption as Black Shaheen sale had been allowed in region.

While I’m sure we can argue true range figures and aspects of MTCR all day;
It really comes down to best practices, should Egypt have an advanced cruise missile?

Sorry cream, but it’s not about the US trying to block Rafale sales. I think more than a few people on here (and governments) would see throwing in cruise missiles (in violation of a treaty France signed, and was renegotiated after previous issues with Scalp/Storm shadow sales to Gulf states), as irresponsible.

If it’s that hard to get a customer to commit to your product that you’re introducing weapon systems previous sellers refused, maybe that’s a problem in and of itself. Perhaps Dassault shouldn’t have been so desperate to find an export customer that they pushed the gov to include a dangerously irresponsible weapons package to get said contract. Hell, look at what AAM Egypt had before the Rafale deal on their F-16’s.

And before you comment on Hypocrisy… look within. I can think of three + reasons the USN and RN wouldn’t be thrilled with the prospect of France selling guided missiles to another unstable nation.

Addition-couldn’t be happier that the US is trying to block the Scalp to Egypt. The military is struggling to control IS and other factions in country. Could go either way.

Right, wasn’t estimating if three could fit. I was using the known dimensions to compare to the size of the bay. I wouldn’t want to guess +- 50mm of actual size but less than a meter plus wide (as paralay is stating) for the bay, i’d take that bet.

Feel free to provide your own estimates, FBW.

Pass, zero hard info out there. One thing is clear the bay is not almost 3 K-77 (span) wide.

Have to rephrase the above post before someone has a fit:
What I meant to say was that I am sceptical that the Idz.810 was designed solely for internal carriage on the Su-57. It would appear the missile is simply too large to fit more than one per bay (assuming there is no divider in each weapons bay, which is likely accurate considering the other large AtG missiles slated for internal carriage).
The Kh-58UShKE graphic from years ago showed one per bay as well.

Would seem more likely the missile could carried on aircraft smaller than the MiG-31, like the Su-57 and Su-35 giving them a long range AAM similar to the R-37 with the possibility of internal carriage on the Su-57 due to more compact control surfaces. Again does anyone have ACCURATE dimensions or estimates of weapons bay LxWxH?