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  • in reply to: 2017 F-35 news and discussion thread #2136946
    FBW
    Participant

    How do you say “rigged” in political lanuage? “excessively optimistic”?

    No, you read the original summary from the evaluation, the study had some discrepancies (like the life cycle costs based on 6,000 hours for the SH), but nothing at all to claim it was “rigged” . MoD disagrees with these conclusions by the Audit office.

    Defense expert Peter Viggo Jakobsen from the Defense Academy criticizes the Ministry of Defense ‘having reckoned back’ to ensure that F35 won the competition over two other aircraft.

    shocking a “defense expert” claims the contest was rigged. I’m sure the funding of the Defense Academy thinktank has never come via Velizy-Villacoublay.

    At the same time there is a risk that Denmark’s largest state procurement so far will be far more expensive than the agreed 66 billion. kr., concludes.

    – a risk, there is a risk of cost overrun with every defense procurement. What are the underlying assumptions of this risk?

    Edit- Jakobsen is an associate at the Royal Defense Academy who’s areas of expertise seems to be peacekeeping operations and diplomacy. That makes him as much an expert on procurement as I am as an associate professor of European History.

    in reply to: 2017 F-35 news and discussion thread #2136992
    FBW
    Participant

    Because there are much funnier parts in Denmark atm. their GAO even said that some of their DM officials underscored (rigged the competition) the sustainment costs…

    https://jyllands-posten.dk/politik/E…medium=twitter

    Hallow, how disingenuous can you be?

    That isn’t at all what the article is stating. The discrepancy is stated twice, the underlying assumption that 27 aircraft could meet the same operational tempo of 44 F-16’s. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out the bigger issue is that a smaller fleet will pose a greater risk to meeting operational requirements.

    So, please do explain where the system is “rigged”, or is this your attempt to make a supposition that somehow Denmark would have been able to purchase more airframes from Boeing, Dassault, etc.

    in reply to: Clean Rafale & Gripen RCS is 5 m2 and 3 m2. Not .05 & .03 #2137017
    FBW
    Participant

    es but it depends about how it sits on the plane, a Meteor on the Typhoon conformal mounting probably impact less than a vanilla sidewinder on a wingtip (and is covered by plane’s shadow in most cases).
    Same with payload sitting in the central tunnel of a Flanker or Fullback, although having a conventional arrangment, they can be seen only from the bottom

    To a degree, but does not account for creeping waves (even if the return is far weaker). Bottom line: discontinuities are going to increase RCS. When designers are concerned about size and shape of access panels and countersunk rivets in LO aircraft: obviously a pylon, IR seeker head, or EFT will have a significant impact even from the head on aspect.

    in reply to: USAF not F-35 thread #2137198
    FBW
    Participant

    Freddy, we try to keep this thread clear of F-35 news and information as there is a whole thread devoted to it. I won’t even go into “National Interest”, except to state that their articles never reach the threshold of either news or analysis.

    in reply to: USAF not F-35 thread #2137526
    FBW
    Participant

    You are correct, looked at the 2016 inventory and accidentally took number off the F-15c at 212. That explains the number to be procured, oops.

    in reply to: Clean Rafale & Gripen RCS is 5 m2 and 3 m2. Not .05 & .03 #2137540
    FBW
    Participant

    Here’s a suggestion. Stop. Reading comments section of dumb sites like national interest. Most of the B.S. speculation and figures on this forum seem to come from you lately so do us all a favor and give it a rest.

    FBW
    Participant

    The combat capabilities of the F-22 are higher by 18%, these are determined by the choice in his favor

    Thanks for the random chart of vague factors generated by you Paralay,

    Really clears up everything.

    in reply to: USAF not F-35 thread #2137608
    FBW
    Participant

    CSBA released their 2018 weapon system factbook- Pretty good overview of procurement
    http://csbaonline.org/uploads/documents/CSBA6304_%28Weapons_Systems_Factbook_2018%29Final-web.pdf

    1. As noted before (via BiO) EPAWSS has been cut to 221. That number means several possible things: The entire F-15E fleet will receive the upgrade and perhaps a few F-15 C/D for testing, or the F-15 C/D fleet will not be retired as rumored and only PAI aircraft will receive EPAWSS (leaning toward former, nothing has come of longeron replacement so retirement of F-15C fleet likely starting in early 2020’s)

    2. NGJ Inc 1 procurement starts in 2018, production looks to peak at 14 units per year in 2022-2027.

    3. B-21 RDT&E costs peak in 2021 before starting to decline. Could signal procurement starting some time around 2022-23, but as it is a special access program, who knows.

    4. TACTOM procurement zeros out after 2018.

    Pretty much it (from what I found interesting), brief user friendly overview of weapon system procurement and funding.

    FBW
    Participant

    Yes and No, the outer shape is critical for scatter and backscatter of RF energy. LO combat aircraft have to fly, flight, communicate, etc. When even the reflection off a pilots helmet, fan blade, or afterburner rings can dramatically increase RCS, obviously the concept of “shaping” refers to more than the planform edge alignment and avoidance of corner reflecters.

    As an aside, I grew up near one of the USAF RCS test ranges, I saw the F-22 EMD, RAH-66, early JSF models (actually JAST, the JSF RCS mockups I saw pole testing during grad school), other test models that I could not identify, mounted on poles for testing. Even from several hundred yards away, it was easy to distinguish a RCS mockup from, say, a functional F-16 which I frequently saw mounted on the RCS pole during the early 90’s.

    in reply to: USAF not F-35 thread #2137859
    FBW
    Participant

    2 stages design?!

    – makes sense, especially if plans include two versions: one without the booster for close and medium range engagements and one with the booster for long range. Increased magazine flexibility. If not, two stages solve the end game kinematics while still providing rapid acceleration (and not having the drag, weight and complexity of a ramjet).

    The L-M CUDA proposal was rumored to have a two stage concept for extended range in addition to the 70 inch long weapon. Stunner is a two stage missile as well.

    FBW
    Participant

    Because it didn’t. The YF-23 (for the 100th time) was a flying prototype. Neither the YF-22 or -23 were LO, they had pilots (autocorrect from pitots though they had pilots too, ha), exposed vents, no RAS incorporated in structure, no RAM. Do you need to read Northrop engineers state this because I can pull up the quote?

    The only thing rumored is of the RCS test mules, was that the YF-23 RCS model had a lower RCS. Those models were devoid of engines, antennas, everything but the outline shape and structure. So if you want to say that the YF-23 had better shaping, fine. In reality, the production F-23 would have had significant changes to the inlets, exhaust, cockpit, access panels, in order to meet RCS requirements. The same was true of the evolution from the YF-22 to the F-22 EMD.[ATTACH=CONFIG]256718[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]256719[/ATTACH]

    They look the same to you? That is why definitive statements about the relative RCS between the YF-23 and the F-22 are dumb. The YF-22 had significant changes to the F-22, the YF-23 would have too.

    in reply to: USAF not F-35 thread #2138142
    FBW
    Participant

    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/usaf-estimates-f-22-updates-could-cost-17-billion-442672/

    Following up on this, the block 20 aircraft must not have gotten the the rumored CIP upgrades, as the wording states that they retain the original processors. Likely, these block 20 also did not receive the TRM upgrade which standardized the modules between APG-81, APG-77(v)1, and APG-80.

    The block 20 aircraft (I believe) are at increment 2 standard, though they received software update 5. That means they would need hardware to brought up to block 30 increment 3.1.
    Increment 3.2A is software only so I’m not seeing the “four generations of upgrades needed”.

    FBW
    Participant

    A few corrections to the corrections. Actually, the F-23 would have had less volume in the engine nacelles and likely better area ruling for it – while already cancelled by then and never installed, the YF-23s were build with an outer mold line designed to accommodate thrust reversers.

    Less volume in the nacelles and flatter nacelles, but wider in the rear due to reconfiguration of nozzle/exhaust trough[ATTACH=CONFIG]256678[/ATTACH]
    The forward fuselage was also considerably wider. The extensive area rule of the YF-23 was relaxed in the EMD for functionality: weapons bays, radar, rear aspect RCS and thermal requirements. (pic-courtesy of YF-23.net). The RCS model incorporated some of the changes that the EMD would have demonstrated.

    while at the same time conducting heat so poorly that the underlying structure is sufficiently insulated) while the nozzle tiles on the YF-23 were transpiration cooled (air ejected through numerous tiny perforations).

    Again yes and no, they were cooled by transpiration, but the tiles themselves were Titanium Lamilloy, and you are right they are not ablative (well, actually kind of were, just not on purpose). And Northrup sued Allison over their performance (edit- Allison sued Northrup over the specifications).
    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/in-court-of-appeals/1121429.html

    Addition: Interesting powerpoint from society of flight test engineers (with some specifics on the flight test program)
    http://www.sftentx.com/files/78588500.pdf

    YF-22 no.1 (YF120)= max mach >2
    YF-22 no.2 (YF-119)= max mach 1.81

    PAV-1= max mach 1.8
    PAV-2= max mach 1.72

    However, last slide showed the max supercruise of PAV-2 to be superior to YF-22. (If you look at slide it would appear that max supercruise was probably the max speed listed for PAV-2, Mach 1.72)

    in reply to: 2017 F-35 news and discussion thread #2138259
    FBW
    Participant

    So you cannibalise the rest of the fleet to keep at least one squadron operational. I guess that is fine – bit onerous on your logistics chain.

    But sure who cares about the army needing USAF AMC* assets to deliver bullets, grenades and mortar rounds to the folks on the ground getting shot at. Those C-17s are much better off spending their time shuttling half-dismantled JSFs around the globe instead.

    It is interesting when an issue is reported in the F-35 program, people seem to jump on it as a “F-35 specific” issue. The problem with depot maintenance and spares is NATO wide. The practice of stripping spares to support operational deployment is tried and true for France, UK, US, in recent conflicts.

    France:
    http://www.janes.com/article/65752/french-c-130-hercules-fleet-suffering-low-availability-rates
    UK:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-13081691
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/raf-butchers-four-typhoon-jets-6963359

    At least the F-35 has the excuse from being new and having a developing support infrastructure and spares production pipeline.

    FBW
    Participant

    Bingo, Ijozic

    The YF-23 had cockpit instrumentation from the F-15E, the YF-22 had representative cockpit of planned EMD. Even the landing gear was parts bin. The YF-23 had several proposals for the weapons bay including a trapeze system, the YF-22 had a working system installed (The F-23 would have had a redesigned weapons bay as well as a small bay forward for ir missiles according to the leaked schematics).

    One of the biggest risks was the exhaust system, the F-22 had a TVC non-axis symmetric nozzle, the flight characteristics of which were already known. The SERN nozzle of the YF-23 was a bigger development risk as well as the heat ablative tiles (which any space shuttle affectionado could tell you were a pain).

    Between the two, the USAF deemed that the YF-22 was closer to production ready while Northrup had significant changes to the EMD model planned. It could be considered ironic considering all the changes that eventually showed up on the F-22’s evolution, but it was clear to the USAF which manufacturer had a more mature design (from inlets to exhaust, cockpit avionics, weapons system, etc.).

Viewing 15 posts - 646 through 660 (of 2,935 total)