At least 130 killed in Madrid train blasts

Nermal, Dutchy,

The video was typical CIA survailance of a man who declared war on the US back in 1997!! I hope we were watching him!
I also like your statement that AQ hadn’t done anything except the WORLD TRADE CENTER BOMBING in 93? Thats like saying AQ didn’t do anything to Spain except the Train bombings! I went to the Trade Center back in 93 and the devastation was enormous, literally 15 floors were collapsed on themselves and there was a hole in the basement a few stories deep!!! They wanted to collapse the buildings, so that “little” attack in 1993 should have been a warning to America, don’t forget the other bombings in Saudi Arabia to our barrcks and the USS Cole, Nairobi Embassy.
All reasons to be survailing Bin Ladin in 2000!
Let this be a lesson to the Appeasers in this world, Bill Clinton sat by and watched these attacks and treated them not as a military action but as a police action. Instead of going after the entire AQ network as Bush is doing, He just went after the individuals who perpetrated the bombings, so the Police arrested them and they were tried, of course we paid a stiff price for his appeasmennt and inaction on Sept 11th and that is why we are fighting today……Bin ladin is quoted as stating that “Americans have no spine for war, and if you bloody their nose they will run away” Under Clinton that was true.
You can’t negociate with these lunatics, seek and destroy
TTP

New communication from Alqaeda. They stop all activities in Spain and attacks to see if Zapatero fullfills his promises (troops withdrawal). 😡

As I understood, the main objective was to get all non believers, i.e. American, Birtish and Frensh forces, out of their most holy country, Saudi Arabia. TTP, AQ didn’t like you back then either, remember the attacks on US ambassies in Africa?

Originally posted by TTP
Also don’t ever forget that on Sept 10th 2001 the US wasn’t at war, or fighting with anybody

Got to ask this – if the US wasn’t at war then why, on British TV last night, were they filming bin Laden in Afghanistan 4 years ago? The film came from a whistle-blower, I think. Apparently using a Predator UAV they filmed a tall man in white robes striding around his camp that was identified as him with a commentary that said that the opportunity was missed to take him out before 11/9/01 – even though he hadn’t done anything of note by then (except WTC#1…).
Possibly not the right forum to ask this but where did they launch the UAV from? How many were lost and not declared as operational losses? Were they even in service then?
Won’t help those in Spain, though. – Nermal

I agree …… unfortunately 🙁

Hand 87-5,

The fact that a high percentage of the Spanish people opposed the war in Iraq should not be considered a shield against attacks by these AQ cowards. The French were probably the most vocal of all nations against the Iraq war, yet wasn’t one of your oil tankers attacked in the Gulf? Also these cowards attacked the Saudi’s who are arguably on their side, as well as the Bali bombings! Also don’t ever forget that on Sept 10th 2001 the US wasn’t at war, or fighting with anybody, everybody still seemed to like us back then, but that didn’t stop Al-Queda from attcking us on Sept 11th. What we all have to realize is that these terrorists hate the WEST and any other nation that doesn’t follow their twisted brand of Islam.
I hope one day soon all the free nations of the world contribute troops and resources to an international terrorism task force that will hunt and destroy all of these perpetrators…….It will send a strong message to these cowards that the whole world is against them, and they can’t win….Imagine a force comprised of the most elite units from all nations! it would be unstoppable!
maybe one day,
TTP

I was quite shocked to hear Zapatero saying Americans should vote on Kerry and the whole war was a mistake, an error. Now, this is not the thing you say 6 days after your country was hit by the largest attack in 60 years. This is just cheap small-talk, and if this is the main issue of the new gov’t, I don’t expect it will survive longer than a few months. I always thought socialism was against egocentrism. Well, sending back the troops at this stage, how weird it may sound, is very selfish of the new spanish gov’t. But on the other hand, Bush also did the same in Yugoslavia, and it’s a good thing Bush, not the US, finaly realises that the days of old vs new europe are numbered. But if Spain (or Aznar) chose to join the coalition of the willing, that was out of free will, and it’s rather childish to blame Bush for this.

Originally posted by BME330
I´m with you Keltic, now a retirement of our troops in Iraq is an act of cowardice of the socialists, a bad thing that a goverment accepts a blackmail, if we accept one time, we will accept another at least, what´s the next? Ceuta? Melilla?

At least we keep our flag (at least for now)

I really never expected any country would ever back down to Terrorism let alone a Country in Europe,The election vote i do understand as the last government lied about who was behind the attacks and treated the spanish public like fools,But the new Government pulling its people out of iraq etc is just showing you can be bullied by this evil where does it end?

BTW, postponing the elections wasn’t the correct thing to do either, I mean then you also giving into terrorism. We in Holland didn’t postpone the elections after mr. Fortuin was killed either, for this reason. There was no right decision only a very degree of wrong once.

That indeed will be a positive thing, Spain will look to Europe and might even help to get us a constitution. You can see the Bush administration swift a bit towards more influence for the UN, which will be also a positive thing, so in the end we might get more united (Europe and USA I mean) against these kind of groups.

Originally posted by Hand87_5
It seems to me that all of this fiasco is the result of governement who didn’t give a damm of the people will.
They went to war AGAINST this will. Now whatever the decision is , that’s a bad decision. So , which one is the less bad ?

Well, people will of course is something sacret, but Aznar wasn´t on the elections. So there was a slap to Aznar in others face. I was anti war myself, and I think troops shouldn´t be sent. The most reasonable thing had been postponing elections because any country with that impact wouldn´t have acted in a reasonable. I had decided not to vote, and I didn´t vote at all. That was my tribute to victims. Not getting into Alqaeda plans for us. It doesn´t have anything to do with right of left. Zapatero, should have told in public that he would take the troops out of Irak…never. The former goberment was responsible but Zapatero colaborated quite a lot too. Something taken from a newspaper yesterday and showed documents seized to Alqaeda in Spain.
“to force the goberment to withdarw from Irak we should give hard hits to them…..we have to use the elections. We feel that they wouldn´t stand for three of four attacks before submitting to publics preasure. If they didn´t the victory of the socialist party
will be a fact and the withdrawal will be his priority”
Sounds quite concerning isn´t it?. The only positive thing of the point is that the submission to Bush administration is over. New administration will look to Europe now.

Well, there will be indeed not a good outcome. The best outcome, in my humble opinion, would be an UN mandate with which the Spanish government will be involved in Iraq again. Hopefully Germany, France (and Belgium :D) will join the coalition under an UN mandate. But not only European countries but also Muslim countries like Pakistan or Indonesia. In this way you can also win the popular vote in countries like Spain and in The Netherlands who are actively involved in Iraq.

But we will see what is going to happen in the next view months.

Originally posted by keltic
I am quite ashamed of the result myself. I was anti war, but I think i was time to show leadership and washed the “dirty clothes” other time. Spanish have never been a reasonable country whose decissions are usually taken with the heart and not the head. Alqaeda (already told to today) wanted to pulled down the goberment and punish Spaniards who ironically had opposed in 90% to war, and SPANIARDS have done WHAT ALQAEDA WANTED, we have submitted to terrorism, we have betrayed the victims memory. It doesn´t matter who were in power goberment needed backing because an external attack had been commited, doesn´t matter who were in power. The Socialist had said, “we promise to taken troops from there” and now they still say we are doing it soon. So terrorism WINS, Spain is easily backmailed. Next time terrorist know what to do, ETA knows what to do……….a bad day to feel proud of such an unreliable country: And I am still agaisnt war. Against terrorism….never that. 😡

It seems to me that all of this fiasco is the result of governement who didn’t give a damm of the people will.
They went to war AGAINST this will. Now whatever the decision is , that’s a bad decision. So , which one is the less bad ?

If you all feel that badly about the result then how come no one wanted the election delayed until such an emotive incident had been dulled in the publics consciousness. A delay of a couple of months would mean that the peole would have had a chance to reflect and not vote as their hearts were telling them.
As it is the government has paid for going against the people – and then the terrorist attack just went to underline that fact. – Nermal

I´m with you Keltic, now a retirement of our troops in Iraq is an act of cowardice of the socialists, a bad thing that a goverment accepts a blackmail, if we accept one time, we will accept another at least, what´s the next? Ceuta? Melilla?

At least we keep our flag (at least for now)

I am quite ashamed of the result myself. I was anti war, but I think i was time to show leadership and washed the “dirty clothes” other time. Spanish have never been a reasonable country whose decissions are usually taken with the heart and not the head. Alqaeda (already told to today) wanted to pulled down the goberment and punish Spaniards who ironically had opposed in 90% to war, and SPANIARDS have done WHAT ALQAEDA WANTED, we have submitted to terrorism, we have betrayed the victims memory. It doesn´t matter who were in power goberment needed backing because an external attack had been commited, doesn´t matter who were in power. The Socialist had said, “we promise to taken troops from there” and now they still say we are doing it soon. So terrorism WINS, Spain is easily backmailed. Next time terrorist know what to do, ETA knows what to do……….a bad day to feel proud of such an unreliable country: And I am still agaisnt war. Against terrorism….never that. 😡

A few points, If Al-Quaeda has no ties to Saddam or Iraq, then why are they so upset about the US/Spanish being there?

Point 2- Hans Blick was just on TV telling everybody that Saddam did not account for large quantities of WMD’s (presumably Chemicals) and that Saddam made a big mistake by not being forthright as to their whereabouts!!!!!! But I’m to understand since the US hasn’t found any that He never Had them???? also on TV the other day ABC interviewed a Former Iraqi phycisists who defected from Iraq in 1997 because..SADDAM WANTED HIM TO BUILD A CENTRIFUGE CAPABLE OF DEVELOPING WEAPONS GRADE PLUTONIUM!!!! they asked him what He thought about the new Iraqui constitution……
I Don’t mean to rehash old topics but it is all connected…..
TTP

Had our silence – again!- here today (like 11’th of September).

But one problem remains, Spain. You were bombed (by whome?), You pull out of Iraq?

How in H*ll are “we” gonna combat any terrorists from now?

Thank You! See you in Copenhagen, Denmark, on the 14’th of May for the Crown Prince wedding.

Thank God HRH Frederik is a Danish Navy SEAL, so he can jump in the harbour with Mary from Tasmania.

(Hey! Al Q. Remember Poland is in Iraq as well.)

Frustrated!

100% agreed !

True, Hand, the Spanish didn’t want that war. But this attack could have happened in Brussels or Paris as well (and will happen if we’re not more cautious). I was against that war, and I still believe it’s wrong. But what AQ wants is to divide Europe and disconnect its ties with the US. Pulling out the troops gives them the idea they won again. What we should do right now is try to get Europe and the US more closely together, not just in a fight against terror, but also other issues (daily things). These terrorists want the destruction of the west, they don’t want to make a political statement. The current weakness of power in Spain, and Europe, makes them laugh. Flagwaving and macho-talk alone will not work, but Aznar should have set the elections on a later date. (if that is possible ofcourse). The Spaniards are in a state of -which I understand- emotional behaviour. I don’t back the conservative party, I don’t know what they’ve done good/bad so far, but the elections couldn’t have been chosen on a worse date.

I know the argument sounds childish, but before 9/11 there was no war on terrorism. But we should still remain rational and go through all options, not just launching tomahawks to the first country on our list. Saying that the war in iraq was a disaster, like the new soc PM, is a dangerous thing to say. He can think it, but should not say it in public, as the whole world hears this. Especially the word “mistake” is quite harsh, as Spanish troops have died in Iraq, and this gives people the impression Aznar killed them and not ‘the’ terrorists. I don’t think this gov’t will have a big chance of surviving, especially since it’s governing with a parliamentary minority.

I know I may sound a bit too rightwing today, but I’m just European minded, and I consider this an attack on Europe as a whole. The different politics in the EU should be overwon. I was a bit upset the other day when some guy said Spain could have prevented this by not taking part in this war.