Hybrid Car ??

Is it really necessary for a post to be ‘directed’ at you before you feel the need to comment?

No. What is required is for something new and interesting to be added to the discussion, rather than the sterile and timeworn arguments being repeated here. Who cares if Al Gore has a big house and leaves the lights on?

Moggy

The only remaining content of your post directed at me was an offer to point me to a forum where I could eavesdrop on others who believe they know better than most climate scientists.

Is it really necessary for a post to be ‘directed’ at you before you feel the need to comment?

They don’t ‘know’ any better than climate scientists, but if you continue reading the arguments for and against, it’s certain that you may one day realise that this so called problem facing our planet isn’t as cut and dried as believers think.

I ignored the offer, but if you actually want an answer, thank you but no. I shall give it a miss.

Moggy

Your prerogative.

José

More about good old Al (Mr Green) Gore, the guy who wants us all to cut back and save the planet:

Public records reveal that as Gore lectures Americans on excessive consumption, he and his wife Tipper live in two properties: a 10,000-square-foot, 20-room, eight-bathroom home in Nashville, and a 4,000-square-foot home in Arlington, Va. (He also has a third home in Carthage, Tenn.)

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2006-08-09-gore-green_x.htm

This ‘environmental activist’ gent, drives a 2004 black Cadillac and gave his wife a 65 Mustang as a Valentine’s Day gift, neither of which could be classed as coming close to being green, more like brown!

He couldn’t even organise an eco friendly concert:

Jet-setting Bands Overpopulate Gore’s Live Earth

http://newsbusters.org/node/12013

These are the people who promote the cause for MMGW and try to convince us all to cut back?:rolleyes:

The only remaining content of your post directed at me was an offer to point me to a forum where I could eavesdrop on others who believe they know better than most climate scientists.

I ignored the offer, but if you actually want an answer, thank you but no. I shall give it a miss.

Moggy

😀 Another tactic is to reply to the softest part of someone’s badly worded opening gambit and ignore the content.;)

We might be a minority of two here, Mogs, but are we wrong?

Answering a question with another question is a standard, and rather tired prevarication tactic.

I merely asked if Old Shape had considered one possible reason so few of us ‘idiots’ agreed with his and your views on this issue.

Moggy

A new analysis of peer-reviewed literature reveals that more than 500 scientists have published evidence refuting at least one element of current man-made global warming scares.

More here:
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/news_press_release,176495.shtml

It doesn’t cross your mind that you are in a minority of two and a bit because you might actually be wrong?

But then anybody who doesn’t see it your way is an ‘idiot’ aren’t they?

Moggy

We might be a minority of two here, Mogs, but are we wrong?
There are plenty more than ‘two’ of us around who haven’t been brainwashed and if you fancy checking another forum that’s made up only of the older generation, who are far from convinced that man is responsible for global warming, PM me for details.

You seem very quick to dismiss a body that won the Nobel Prize. I wonder why?
Are you serious??? They also Gave Al Gore a share of that gong for christs sake.

Good point!
I wonder how many here know how Al Gore lives?
His accomodation has been compared to Dubya’s and Al doesn’t score well on the carbon footprint front, in fact he’s one of the biggest energy wasters of all time.

Dubya’s house has all the most up to date green efficient items that money can buy, whereas Al has none and uses more energy than most people know how to.

Talk about practice what you preach!

A typical Al Gore, Nobel laureate, comment:

“When my sister and I were growing up,” Mr. Gore told a small audience made up mostly of women, “there was never any doubt in our minds that men and women were equal, if not more so.”

More stupid Gory comments here:
http://www.gargaro.com/algore.html

You could even refer to Ch4 “The global warming scandal”,

Presuming you mean The Great Global Warming Swindle which really was a televised programme:

* Martin Durkin has a reputation for producing misleading anti-environment programmes.

* Many of the participants, whilst presented by the programme makers as climate scientists, have little or no relevant scientific qualification, and have never published peer-reviewed papers on climate science. Some have been shown to have links with climate sceptic lobby groups funded by big business.

* The theory presented, that sunspot activity has more effect on our climate than greenhouse gasses do, was disproved several years ago.

* The period of “global cooling” which followed the Second World War does not demonstrate that global warming is not caused by human CO2 emissions, rather it was caused by increased atmospheric pollution, and was merely masking the global warming effect of CO2.

Moggy

You seem very quick to dismiss a body that won the Nobel Prize. I wonder why?
Are you serious??? They also Gave Al Gore a share of that gong for christs sake.
The WMO is in that gang, part of the UN. Funded and told what to do by the USA (Or do you believe the UN is independent!)
Jesus H Tapdancin Christ, do you think I would defend a position without a trusted source?
Science Daily (Mar. 30, 2005) “Ice Core ‘Dipstick’ Indicates West Antarctic Ice Has Thinned Less Than Believed”
ScienceDaily (Aug. 10, 2006) “Overall Antarctic Snowfall Hasn’t Changed In 50 Years”
How about a free book? “Unstoppable global Warming” by Fred Singer. Do a google, it’s a PDF.
A good article is “CO2: The Greatest Scientific Scandal of Our Time” by Zbigniew Jaworowski. This has about 200 further references.

You could even refer to Ch4 “The global warming scandal”, which was ridiculed by the government……well, they would wouldn’t they.

On top of that, refer back to year 1 physics, the mass of the planet, the joules of energy hitting it every day, the energy within the core.
Compare that to the “Damage” that these nasty poluting nations have allegedly done. Compare that to the empty land mass and water mass of earth. We are nothing in this scheme. If you listen to the greens, we’d all be choking to death as we walk our very streets. I read somewhere that my tank of petrol deposits 300 kg of Co2 as it’s used. Petrol is 820kg per cubic metre. My figures are about 184g of Co2 per litre used, and that is on a very bad car like mine at 36mpg. That’s about 7kg, not 300. But I’m used to being bombarded by bullsh** from the greens and the government, so as soon as one opens their mouth it pays to go and check and do your own sums.

The debate in the scientific community is far hotter than you versus me, join a few of their forums for a spell.

In the past 30 years it’s gone from the Ice Age is coming to, oh erm sorry we meant global warming. Yeah, right we did all that damage in that short space of time.

IPCC from their website:

The IPCC is a scientific intergovernmental body set up by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) and by the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP).

You seem very quick to dismiss a body that won the Nobel Prize. I wonder why?

Clathrates – I believe one criticism of the IPCC was that they had not factored in enough of the research on Methane release from the Tundra thus their Fourth Assessment may be too conservative.

However, it is very difficult to know what science is against our position if you don’t quote it. I don’t believe blindly, I study and discuss, that’s why I’m on a discussion forum.

So if the governments tomorrow told you that climate change wasn’t exacerbated by man, you’d change your views and believe it was?

No, I will not believe a government. I seek the truth, this cannot be found from a government.

It doesn’t cross your mind that you are in a minority of two and a bit because you might actually be wrong?

How very dare we speak out against the believers!
2 on this thread. Independent science on the other hand is agin you lot.

But then anybody who doesn’t see it your way is an ‘idiot’ aren’t they?

No, only those who believe governments and religions and other brainwashing bodies, all of which have an ulterior motive.

Moggy

You need to trust the experts, not wan*ers that are put there for a 5 year stint, in which their only motive is to milk a BIG salary and pension therefrom.

Ignore me, ignore Government if you can’t judge when they’re spinning – but read what the independent scientists say, that’s why I posted links to credible reports for the comments I’ve made. Read all the scientists and judge on the consensus view.

You posted links to Intergovernment study groups.

OK, you agree with Climate Change. But how do you explain that for 800,000 years (the ice core record) the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere didn’t go above about 300ppm. But in the last 50 years it has and now is 375ppm.

Please study clathrates, and the compression of air pockets forming different chemical reactions..especially that of Co2. Once again, outfits like the IPCC have cherry picked the readings they require.

The IPCC states: “most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations”

IPCC. The case rests.

Joglo, the brainwashing of the proletariat seems to have worked. On this forum, it’s you and me plus maybe one other that have resisted UTTER TRASH written by idiots wasting their education.

Ignore me, ignore Government if you can’t judge when they’re spinning – but read what the independent scientists say, that’s why I posted links to credible reports for the comments I’ve made. Read all the scientists and judge on the consensus view.

I say again, NOBODY is denying that global warming is real.
But to blame it on man is nothing more than foolhardy.
And to think man can change it or solve this problem is equally foolhardy.

OK, you agree with Climate Change. But how do you explain that for 800,000 years (the ice core record) the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere didn’t go above about 300ppm. But in the last 50 years it has and now is 375ppm.

The IPCC states: “most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations”

No, Governments are not to be trusted on any subject you ever care to mention. Climate change is no exception.

So if the governments tomorrow told you that climate change wasn’t exacerbated by man, you’d change your views and believe it was?

Joglo, the brainwashing of the proletariat seems to have worked. On this forum, it’s you and me plus maybe one other that have resisted UTTER TRASH written by idiots wasting their education.

It doesn’t cross your mind that you are in a minority of two and a bit because you might actually be wrong?

But then anybody who doesn’t see it your way is an ‘idiot’ aren’t they?

Moggy

Joglo, the brainwashing of the proletariat seems to have worked. On this forum, it’s you and me plus maybe one other that have resisted UTTER TRASH written by idiots wasting their education.

I say again, NOBODY is denying that global warming is real.
But to blame it on man is nothing more than foolhardy.
And to think man can change it or solve this problem is equally foolhardy.

I keep my carbon footprint as low as feasible.
I shall continue to recycle stuff, in the hope that it will bring prices down.
I shall continue to use one energy efficient bulb in my bedside reading light as it may keep the lecky bill down a bit…. (Until they invent an energy efficient one that actually gives off light and can be used in the house, whereupon I will change them all to save money).
I shall continue to save energy in general, to lower my bills, bills that have been forced up due to a weak scared public believing that there isn’t much left “So you have to pay more for it”.
I shall continue to water the garden with water from the water butt. Because it’s better for the plants AND it doesn’t cost me an outrageous amount (Over £4.00 a cubic metre for supply and waste).
I shall continue to drive old cars, one day…18 years time or so…. I may be forced to drive a hybrid or an electric one because I’ll have no choice.

This reminds me of another forum I used to post on.
There was a 92 year old member, who mentioned man made global warming every time a hurricane, flood, typhoon, freak storm or drought happened.

Every time he posted about something being a first, I managed to find earlier records of similar events that happened before 4x4s existed.

It’s everyone’s prerogative to believe in whatever they like, whether it be ghosts, ghouls, fairies or Santa Claus.

Thank goodness no one mentioned global warming during the freak summer of 76, when everyone would have swallowed the idea, hook, line and sinker. :rolleyes:

Edit: Don’t forget what Al Gore had to say about pollution, “It isn’t pollution that’s harming the environment. It’s the impurities in our air and water that are doing it.”

That’s wonderfully muddled thinking.

You are saying that because the governments of the world are, all too slowly, coming round to believing the weight of scientific opinion on man’s effect on the climate, that we shouldn’t because governments are not trustworthy.

I think you need to sit and consider what you wrote in the cold light of day.

Moggy

No, Governments are not to be trusted on any subject you ever care to mention. Climate change is no exception.
Misinform the people into paying more tax. Can you see a pattern emerging here?
The governments are cherry picking what they want to say, as always and just like the 45 minute threat from Iraq (Although I 100% support the overthrowing of such nations and I didn’t need a false excuse).

In the 4bn years of this planet, there has been thousands of cycles of ice or scorch. The present warming is part of that. Mans affect is a bit like a fart in outer space.
99% of mans polution falls back on the soil.
The ozone damaging stuff…..er, sorry, it actually wasn’t….the hole seems to be mending.

Ah, so we all agree and this thread, like many before it, would have benefitted from an Irony emoticon?

Can we have one?

Sorry

Apology accepted.