Hybrid Car ??

The Governments are driving this fear as an excuse to drag more tax from your hard earned…

Maybe…..but taxation is necessary and was happening long before anybody had ever heard of global warming.

Would you be happier if the government ignored global warming and just increased income tax?

The gullible and misinformed including about 95 – 98% of all serious scientific opinion.

Moggy

Moggy, that’s rot.
95-98% agree that climate change is happening is the probable statistic (Considering that only a few years ago the scientific community was divided as to whether it was changing or not).
Very few reliable studies can prove that it is the fault of mankind and his machines.
When the figures start to look good, it’s news is suppressed! The Ozone hole is now as small as it was 30 years ago, for example. Our (Only a few nations) banning of CFC’s could not have repaired it in such a short time.
As I said, a two day eruption from a decent sized Volcano put’s more carp in the air than all the cars ever made, and Jellystone Nat. Park is due to blow (Ecologically speaking) and that will likely kill the Earth.

The Governments are driving this fear as an excuse to drag more tax from your hard earned. Nobody can ever trust a Government, on anything. Especially the UK, which is only slightly less corrupt than Nigeria….but the UK is sneaky about it.

Saturday May 23 2009 Mallory Park

PPC in the Park is Europe’s most exciting new event for car enthusiasts. No other show combines non-stop live action on the track, some of the most amazing cars ever built on display in the paddock, and the chance to see PPC’s very own 27-litre V12 Rover and turbocharged Rolls Royce track-day car in action.

You can become part of the action by booking track time for you and your car at just £12.50 per session (booked in advance). You can also watch the PPC £999 Challenge contestants battling it out to become the 2009 champion in the fastest car you can build for less than £1000.

Slightly more expensive is the Dodge Dakota jet-powered truck which will be firing up its monster engine with afterburner. Then there’s PPC feature cars, the PPC team and their cars (including editor Will Holman’s 5-litre V8 Capri). And PPC’s technical guru, Dave Walker, will be holding a live Walker’s Workshop demonstration.

To top it all we’ll be having a few shandys in the evening with a marquee and bar from the Ace Cafe – so bring your tent because camping’s completely free. PPC in the Park is 2009’s must-attend event.

27-litre Rover SD1
PPC’s Rolls Royce turbo
PPC team and Staff Cars
PPC feature cars (incl Duel Control BMW)
All-day track action
PPC £999 Challenge
Lawn mower racing
Power tool drag racing
Jet powered truck
Auto testing
Auto jumble
Discount track time
Evening entertainment
Walker’s Workshop live
Tuning part trade stands
Rolling roads
Data logging seminar
Kit car rides.

Attractions include above list.

Advance ticket bookings are rewarded with a free limited edition PPC in the Park T-shirt, to collect on the day, and free car parking on the day.

Tickets £17 (under 16’s free)
Evening Entertainment £10
£999 Challenge £50 (including show entrance)
Track time per 15 mins £12.50 (booked in advance)
Camping FREE
Parking FREE (if tickets booked in advance, £1 on the day)

Contact: Kate Miller [email]events@ppcmag.co.uk[/email] 01780 758804 / 07933 704270

Bookings already being taken and track sessions limited – don’t miss out call today.

Moggy, I’ve read hundreds of web pages and articles regarding climate change, global warming, rising sea levels, global cooling, man made and natural climate change, but none of them quote anything about, “95 – 98% of all serious scientific opinion” being in agreement with anything specific.

That’s the source I was hoping you could supply.

“The Scientific Consensus on Climate Change,” written by Naomi Oreskes, of the Department of History and Science Studies Program, mentions nothing about percentage of serious scientific opinion in agreement, probably because no one actually knows.

Start here:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686

Note this bit:

The 928 papers were divided into six categories: explicit endorsement of the consensus position, evaluation of impacts, mitigation proposals, methods, paleoclimate analysis, and rejection of the consensus position. Of all the papers, 75% fell into the first three categories, either explicitly or implicitly accepting the consensus view; 25% dealt with methods or paleoclimate, taking no position on current anthropogenic climate change. Remarkably, none of the papers disagreed with the consensus position.

Then do some googling yourself ignoring any site entitled something like:

www.iwantotkeepdrivingmyfivempgsuv.com

But its OK. I am sure you know better than any scientists and we are all going to be just fine if we carry on as we are.

Do I care?

Nope. I’ll be out of here within the next ten or twenty years and don’t have kids to worry about.

Moggy

The gullible and misinformed including about 95 – 98% of all serious scientific opinion.

Moggy

Source required, please?

José

Global warming is happening but it is not man’s fault. The gullible and misinformed think it is

The gullible and misinformed including about 95 – 98% of all serious scientific opinion.

Moggy

This may sound completely stupid and off topic, but when I drive my gargantuan 4 x 4, diesel, 4 door 5 “luxurious” seats, 6 wheeled pick up truck (which I do use for work everyday, and tow my WWII reenactment vehicle/equipment with, thank you very much) I have to laugh at the global warming alarmist.

For what amounts to about a 2 hr drive, not far outside Philadelphia, PA, I can go to the “Boulder Field”, in Hickory Run State Park,PA. Its claim to fame is this huge field of boulders, some the size of busses, that were all deposited during the last ice age. I’ve been there, I have walked straight across (longways arghhhhhhh) this field. Where were the humans and internal combustion engines at that point to kill the ice age?

Sire, I don’t understand the smiley you followed this with.

Actually, OS, neither do I…
Deleted accordingly! :D:D

You are perfectly correct with regard to volcanic gases, etc.
Climate change is an ongoing, cyclic process.
I was watching a documentary about fossils & paleontology (sp?), and it was pointed out in the said programme that evidence of past climate change is to be found in the rocks.
Even to someone like myself who studied fossils and geology – albeit briefly – the evidence is quite obvious.

Don

Sorry to hijack the thread, but here’s a little equation, as I see it:
“Global warming” + “climate change” + “Carbon footprint” = Govt. excuse for more taxes :mad::mad:
😀
Don

Sire, I don’t understand the smiley you followed this with.
You are 100% correct.
Global warming is happening but it is not man’s fault. The gullible and misinformed think it is, and the bentlot have seized the opportunity to take away our hard-earned.
One big Volcano such as St Helens put’s more bad gas in the air than all the cars ever built.
And when Jellystone Nat. Park goes up, we’re all dead anyway……but we can go to the grave clutching a crap light-bulb in our hands, knowing we did a bit (To add to the growing business plan of opticians!)

Sorry to hijack the thread, but here’s a little equation, as I see it:
“Global warming” + “climate change” + “Carbon footprint” = Govt. excuse for more taxes :mad::mad:

Do post a picture of your current vehicle and we’ll judge the relative ‘stupidity’ levels 😉

Moggy

O.K., here goes…

1998 Rover 214 SI
1973 Leyland Leopard coach
1975 AEC Reliance coach

At 11.1 and 12.3 litres respectively, and with DERV prices at the current level, needless to say the coaches don’t get out much… :rolleyes:

Don

If your use profile is largely short journeys then this will give really significant savings, as for most trips you’ll just unplug your car, take it out of the garage and complete your shopping / commute without using any petrol (gas) at all.
Moggy

Would you really save much? i have wondered about this what would charging a car do to your electricity bill? and in turn to emisions from Power stations.

edit: having read the rest of the thread now i see someone else has covered the same point. note to self must read whole thread before commenting!

Regardless of their longevity, which is hardly unusual, none of those strike me as supporting your contention that you would buy a hybrid if you wanted to look ‘stupid’

Moggy

No, you’ve reversed the context there. Anyway, I’ll grant that the latest hybrids look no different to the normally sexed cars next to them. But I don’t like the present design styles of most new cars. They all look like Ban Dai has designed them. I’m a fan of BMW’s but the new ones are butt ugly MF cars. (If I was given a new 6 series, I’d accept it though:) )

I also tend to stay with old cars and accept that I have to get my hands dirty sometimes,my current one cost £700 does 50mpg and is a fairly comfortable cruiser (2600 rpm @70 mph) and being swedish is pleasant to work on(except the engine..that’s french:rolleyes:)
Took it to Stornoway 2 months ago and averaged 52mpg.
Volvo 440 1.9 turbo diesel

regards baz

Regardless of their longevity, which is hardly unusual, none of those strike me as supporting your contention that you would buy a hybrid if you wanted to look ‘stupid’

Moggy

Do post a picture of your current vehicle and we’ll judge the relative ‘stupidity’ levels 😉

Moggy

E34 2.0 litre
E36 2.0 litre
Orion 1.8 Ghia for running about in.
All past 150k miles, all going strong.

According to the SMMT approximately 700kg of CO2 was produced in manufacturing the ‘average’ vehicle in the UK in 2006 (down from 1300kg in 2001).

An internal combustion engine produces about 10.5kg of CO2 for every (UK) gallon of petrol burned.

So a car that does 39 miles-per-gallon will produce as much CO2 driving 2600 miles as it did during its manufacture.

On the other hand, cars are still one of the most recycled products available.

Toyota, who are genuinely committed to lowering the lifetime environmental impact of their vehicles are working very hard towards increasing the recyclable content of their vehicles and reducing the manufacturing impact. A good illustration of this is that they have targeted zero waste to landfill from all their factories.

The current model Prius is just a staging post along a road they started on in the 1960s.

Do you want to look stupid in a car? (Don’t answer that if you already own a Smart car).

Do post a picture of your current vehicle and we’ll judge the relative ‘stupidity’ levels 😉

Moggy

I agree with those that use the word “Hype” in any energy discussion.

Any excuse for a Guvmint or Energy company to warn you that “There isn’t much left” so prices must rise 40%….are you spotting a pattern here!!

Energy light bulbs are outrageously useless.

On topic, Hybrid cars use more power when running the carbon fuel bit, as they are charging the battery bit. And, they look stupid. Do you want to look stupid in a car? (Don’t answer that if you already own a Smart car).
If you are concerned about the smog in a city then use the public transport system. It’s in cities that the transport systems actually are, they are generally not in the countryside where 1 bus every two hours is the norm.
If you are concerned about the pound in your pocket on running costs, then buy a new modern petrol / Derv car.

Personally, I never buy a car that is younger than 12 years and I have never gone into 4 figures for a car. So, I have no loans or finance to pay, just Tax/Insurance and MoT and of course fuel. So, if I wanted to, I could go back to my 3.0 litre that used 24mpg on a good run, and still be spending less in a year than somebody in a brand new hybrid.

And don’t get me started on the fact that regardless what powers your car, the biggest chunk of it’s “lifetime” carbon footprint is probably the energy used to produce it from the ultimate starting materials such as iron ore, oil etc. The amount of fuel it burns “in use” is just one small part of the overall “whole life” footprint.

-It probably does less damage to the planet resources overall to repair/support an older, albeit less fuel efficient, car than it does to scrap it and buy a new one which has consumed goodness knows how many tonnes of virgin iron ore, and how many killowatts of power (wonder how was that generated?) to make it.

Agreed, “Lifetime Carbon Footprint” is a very interesting (and important) question for new versus old cars.

Of course at some point it will make ‘carbon’ sense to buy a new car but when does that point come? I suppose a good starting point would be to consider the cost of manufacture of a new car against the cost of fuel you save by not running an old car (minus the considerable tax / duty cost obviously). But not all the cost of car manufacture is carbon; most of it is labour but it will give you an upper limit.

Approximately 90% of the steel used in car-making ends up as scrap during production (that figure is a little out of date but it is still a very high figure) but that cost as well as the cost (and wastage) of plastic, rubber and glass, together with the energy used must all be included in the final production cost of the vehicle (not the forecourt price). On the other hand, cars are still one of the most recycled products available.

Some sort of comparison should be possible…..anybody willing to give it a try?

It might just put you off buying the new car if dealers were forced to display such info…i.e. a standaridsed “100,000 mile lifetime carbon footprint”, including all consumables/spares, all fuel etc.

An excellent idea; have you ever thought of becoming an MP? 😉