Hybrid Car ??

For Bruggen:

I’m neither blind or stupid and like you, I’m no scientist, but that isn’t necessary, the ability to be able to think, read and put 2 and 2 together is enough for a minority.

The more you open your mouth makes me think otherwise
Sorry

Yes, up against a wolf I wouldn’t stand a chance. But yet mankind has eliminated the wolf from the UK. An individual is right to be scared of a polar bear, yet we are killing them all

Only because of our illustrious higher brain and opposed thumb.

How many other mammal species exist in the tropics and the high arctic? How many adapt to life in swamps, coral atols and deserts at the same time? How many have had the impact on the planet that we have? Pyramids, roads, cities, Pick’nMix at Woolies? What other species has the energy to collect its poo, pump it hundreds of miles to dump it in the sea and still has time to go swimming in that sea?

See above reply.

Ah, are you referring to that research that claimed the Sun was cooling that was IIRC on a Horizon programme?

No, I didn’t see it.

Yes – have a chat with the government of Tuvalu which is considering evacuating the whole 11,000+ population within 50 years.

Any others?
Don’t forget that some land masses are sinking, while others are rising, which has nothing much to do with sea levels.;) Scotland is a good example of rising land, while East Angular is part of a sinking land mass.
Check out Holland as well.

Feel free to quote sources for your points.

I will when necessary.

I’ve got a degree in Petroleum Geology so can I comment? The current fear is that we are near “Peak Oil” which means that for the past 100+ years use of oil has increased, as has production. But we are not making major finds any more and production is going to decline.

Mankind has relied on fossil fuels for thousands of years and it’s well past time our ‘higher brains’ came up with alternatives before it’s too late.

Addendum:

The human population of Earth reached 1 billion in 1804, 2 billion in 1927, 3 billion in 1959, 4 billion in 1974 and 5 billion in late 1986. Last year on October 12th 1999, the human population of Earth reached 6 billion.

For Bruggen:

:confused: So you really believed that I was suggesting cooling the Sun as an idea?:rolleyes:

Check your world population figure, in 1999, it was estimated at 6,034,213,000, so your 5 billion is a bit behind the times.

The reason for homo sapiens becoming the dominant species is easy to explain, it has nothing to do with physical strength whatsoever, I’m afraid it has all to do with our capacity for thinking and having an opposed thumb.
The thinking part is something which some of us are apparently more capable than others.;)

As a species we are frail and have little to no chance of survival against the elements without shelter.
Newborn humans are the frailest of all animals and take longer to raise than any other animal on this planet.

Thanks for sharing your phd course on Earth’s closed system, I was aware of that in 1948.;)

I’m neither blind or stupid and like you, I’m no scientist, but that isn’t necessary, the ability to be able to think, read and put 2 and 2 together is enough for a minority.

Those of us who think that trivial man is causing the problems we are led to believe our planet is facing today, are those who believe that we’re a super special animal and will cause the death of our planet.
Well I have news for you, nature will always be one step ahead of us and our species will have to find alternatives for many things, or become extinct.

If you believe we have half the chance of lasting half as long as the dinosaurs did, think again, we’re much too weak a species to manage that.
A few degrees too hot or cold and we’re goners.

Species have come and gone in the billions of years that Earth has been spinning round its Sun,

But the rate of extinctions in the last 100 years is the highest known – unless you go back into geological time periods in which case scientists are genuinely comparing what is happening now with the big extinctions from the fossil records. (according to the World Conservation Union) Which could make this the end of an era – the Cenozoic. Now that is scary.

We’re one of the weakest animals this planet has ever had the displeasure of being host to!

Yes, up against a wolf I wouldn’t stand a chance. But yet mankind has eliminated the wolf from the UK. An individual is right to be scared of a polar bear, yet we are killing them all through thinning arctic ice. How many other mammal species exist in the tropics and the high arctic? How many adapt to life in swamps, coral atols and deserts at the same time? How many have had the impact on the planet that we have? Pyramids, roads, cities, Pick’nMix at Woolies? What other species has the energy to collect its poo, pump it hundreds of miles to dump it in the sea and still has time to go swimming in that sea? (with thanks to D Adams for that observation)

When it’s proven that the world is actually cooling, what then, a global cooling tax?:rolleyes:

Ah, are you referring to that research that claimed the Sun was cooling that was IIRC on a Horizon programme? The programme showed that the effect was actually caused by smoke particles in the atmosphere sheilding us from the sun. So, now we have more smoke free fuels, the effect is lessening and we can get the full blast of global warming.

Has anyone bothered to check the claims of sea levels rising at an alarming rate?

Yes – have a chat with the government of Tuvalu which is considering evacuating the whole 11,000+ population within 50 years.

Or look up the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) predictions for up to 60cm rise, on top of recent sea level rises. Which makes for an unprecedented situation in the last 2,000 years.

Or the UNs findings on Climate change?

Feel free to quote sources for your points.

I believe in the geologists / paleolclimatologists first.
As for coal / oil running out, yes……that’s the only decent reason to be looking at alternative energy. We have about 150 years worth yet.

I’ve got a degree in Petroleum Geology so can I comment? The current fear is that we are near “Peak Oil” which means that for the past 100+ years use of oil has increased, as has production. But we are not making major finds any more and production is going to decline. At the same time demand (China and India) is now outstripping supply – so prices have gone up. (The recession has brought some relief to the price crisis for now but not for ever)
So yes, we may still be extracting oil in 100 years or even 150 years, but at nothing like current levels. If demand continues to increase, we need alternatives. If the planet continues to warm up, we need alternatives.

Cheers

Quote of entire post immediately above removed. Please don’t do this. Moggy

O I do love people who talk garbage and then say it was
tongue in cheek, so what your saying is that the 5 billion
people on this planet arn’t having any effect at all, btw
please explain to me how we have become the dominant
species on Earth if we are so weak, this Planet is a closed system, same water, same oxygen, we humans have
upset the balance of the climate like no other
creature before it, if you can’t see that then your either
blind or stupid, or both. but i’m just a taxi driver, not the
scientist that you think you are.

That sir is absolute utter tosh from begining to end, ” do nothing about cooling the sun”, “weakest animal this Planets ever had, iv’e heard more sence from a pi&&ed up
teenager in the back of my cab on a saturday night.

May I first of all say, that my reference to cooling the Sun was written with tongue firmly planted in cheek and it took a cab driver to pick it out.
We wouldn’t be here if the Earth wasn’t approximately 93 million miles from our Sun, a million miles either way would lead to catastrophic results, but we wouldn’t know much about it, because we wouldn’t be here to complain about global warming.

As for the weakest animal on the planet, please enlighten me as to which animal is physically weaker, taking size ratio into account and survival capabilities from birth than homo sapiens, I’d be most interested to learn?

I can’t believe that a person of your age Moggy still having trust in a Government, of any description.

That’s wonderfully muddled thinking.

You are saying that because the governments of the world are, all too slowly, coming round to believing the weight of scientific opinion on man’s effect on the climate, that we shouldn’t because governments are not trustworthy.

I think you need to sit and consider what you wrote in the cold light of day.

Moggy

Apart from cooling the sun comment, very little is tosh in his comment and can be argued for.

For half a decade now Global Warming was the hippest most posh issue you could take on.. and overglorified weather men (climate scientists) have been pushing it for the sake of their own vanity and self importance.

People Like Al Gore , a dumbarse who while did invented internet, has no scientific background all together, but all of a sudden an expert on climate change and a Messiah for “i chain my self to coal trains” loony brigade. Giving him a piece prize for a quazi scientific propaganda film is equivalent to giving Paris Hilton Nobel Prize for achivement in Molecular Biology.. her film did after all educate 1000s of 12y old where babies come from… well almost … she was using a wrong “orifice” in the movie… but close.

For the past half a decade anybody who took up opposing argument no mater how logical and evidence supported, was quickly shut down by loony brigade, called a nazi a oil company lackey and not caring about enviroment.
But finally people are starting to wake up and genuine scientists are getting their voices out there and people are starting to belive that perhaps there are other issues affecting climate , and not just man.

Anyway here is an interesting article.. short but enlighting read.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/miranda-devine/beware-the-church-of-climate-alarm/2008/11/26/1227491635989.html

I for one am glad to hear that you’ve seen the error of your ways!:diablo:

Tax everything to the limit, do nothing about cooling the Sun, the beautiful beast that we have no control over, but has total control over us.

Species have come and gone in the billions of years that Earth has been spinning round its Sun, we’re simply one more species that has little chance of survival for very much longer.
Either we’ll destroy ourselves, or be destroyed by natural forces, there’s no two ways about that!

We’re one of the weakest animals this planet has ever had the displeasure of being host to!

Man made global warming is just another bandwagon for governments to jump on to collect more taxes.
When it’s proven that the world is actually cooling, what then, a global cooling tax?:rolleyes:

Has anyone bothered to check the claims of sea levels rising at an alarming rate?

Nah, thought not, because they are rising no faster than they have for at least the last 200 years.
The ice caps are not melting any more than usual and it’s for sure that they’re freezing over quite well as we speak.

Hurricanes, typhoons, floods, storms, heat waves and other odd weather patterns are no different now than ever before, given that we’re talking about billions of years.

We’ve simply got bad memories and are easily led.:p

That sir is absolute utter tosh from begining to end, ” do nothing about cooling the sun”, “weakest animal this Planets ever had, iv’e heard more sence from a pi&&ed up
teenager in the back of my cab on a saturday night.

Actually some of those 94-96 Mercs have very good diesel engines, you can run them on cooking oil and they still go. 98-2002 mercs are from period when they dropped ball a bit and their reliability went down the toilet.. as did they reputation.. something that was fixed post 2002-03.

If i was you i would get 95-96 model.. drive it 4-5 years and get 2004 in 2012+ 😀

Lord Clarkson… i like sound of that.

“I went on the internet and i found this….” :D:D

But joke a side, gen 2 or gen 3 TDI engine cars are about 10x better for your wallet and enviroment than petrol-hybrid. If you are in Europe something like Peugot 406 TDi is deacent size , looks nice and will do 500 miles on a single tank if driven normal.

Yep.
I’m presently looking around for a 3.0 litre tractor engined Merc. As per my last 7 cars, must be about 12 years old, and never into 4 figures on price….about £600 is a good enough budget for a car. Around 60k miles (That’s just run-in for a merc or a BMW). I usually keep them until they die, about 4 years. Don’t usually have to buy more than tyres and brake bits and the usual stuff for a home service like plugs/filters/oil.
In 2020 I,m looking fwd to a decent TDI as you descibe.

Lord Clarkson… i like sound of that.

“I went on the internet and i found this….” :D:D

But joke a side, gen 2 or gen 3 TDI engine cars are about 10x better for your wallet and enviroment than petrol-hybrid. If you are in Europe something like Peugot 406 TDi is deacent size , looks nice and will do 500 miles on a single tank if driven normal.

Hybrid cars leave bigger carbon footprint before they even leave factory , than a Hummer will in 3 years of operation. Material for battery is dug in canada then shipped to germany for reprocessing then to another place where battery is made.. then its shipped to Japan and put inside Prius , which is then shipped back to UK so some snob pop idol can feel like he is saving the world and look at your 4w drive, down his nose … while on the way to his private Jet.. :mad::mad::mad:

Get a quality turbo diesel made somewhere near your country. On top Gear they drove V6 turbo diesel Jag from Switzerland to North of England on a single tank of fuel.. Something like VW is even better.

Top Gear is ridiculed on this forum. So expect jip. People can’t accept that Clarkson should be at least a Sir, for his entertainment value alone. Add his correct commentary then we are looking at Lordship.

Hybrid cars leave bigger carbon footprint before they even leave factory , than a Hummer will in 3 years of operation. Material for battery is dug in canada then shipped to germany for reprocessing then to another place where battery is made.. then its shipped to Japan and put inside Prius , which is then shipped back to UK so some snob pop idol can feel like he is saving the world and look at your 4w drive, down his nose … while on the way to his private Jet.. :mad::mad::mad:

Get a quality turbo diesel made somewhere near your country. On top Gear they drove V6 turbo diesel Jag from Switzerland to North of England on a single tank of fuel.. Something like VW is even better.

I for one am glad to hear that you’ve seen the error of your ways!:diablo:

Tax everything to the limit, do nothing about cooling the Sun, the beautiful beast that we have no control over, but has total control over us.

Species have come and gone in the billions of years that Earth has been spinning round its Sun, we’re simply one more species that has little chance of survival for very much longer.
Either we’ll destroy ourselves, or be destroyed by natural forces, there’s no two ways about that!

We’re one of the weakest animals this planet has ever had the displeasure of being host to!

Man made global warming is just another bandwagon for governments to jump on to collect more taxes.
When it’s proven that the world is actually cooling, what then, a global cooling tax?:rolleyes:

Has anyone bothered to check the claims of sea levels rising at an alarming rate?

Nah, thought not, because they are rising no faster than they have for at least the last 200 years.
The ice caps are not melting any more than usual and it’s for sure that they’re freezing over quite well as we speak.

Hurricanes, typhoons, floods, storms, heat waves and other odd weather patterns are no different now than ever before, given that we’re talking about billions of years.

We’ve simply got bad memories and are easily led.:p

Carp, as you very well know is the anti moderator/worldwide internet usage version of cra*.
I can’t believe that a person of your age Moggy still having trust in a Government, of any description. Especially as we were around in the early 1980’s, when the next ICE AGE was coming, according to the science the government believes in.

As for me knowing more than the scientists, I believe in the geologists / paleolclimatologists first. I do of course know more than the government. I use my brain daily so that puts me light years ahead of that shower.

The rest of your post, Moggy, is edging on losing the plot.

As for coal / oil running out, yes……that’s the only decent reason to be looking at alternative energy. We have about 150 years worth yet.

No.

Old Shape has convinced me.

Moggy

I for one am glad to hear that you’ve seen the error of your ways!:diablo:

Tax everything to the limit, do nothing about cooling the Sun, the beautiful beast that we have no control over, but has total control over us.

Species have come and gone in the billions of years that Earth has been spinning round its Sun, we’re simply one more species that has little chance of survival for very much longer.
Either we’ll destroy ourselves, or be destroyed by natural forces, there’s no two ways about that!

We’re one of the weakest animals this planet has ever had the displeasure of being host to!

Man made global warming is just another bandwagon for governments to jump on to collect more taxes.
When it’s proven that the world is actually cooling, what then, a global cooling tax?:rolleyes:

Has anyone bothered to check the claims of sea levels rising at an alarming rate?

Nah, thought not, because they are rising no faster than they have for at least the last 200 years.
The ice caps are not melting any more than usual and it’s for sure that they’re freezing over quite well as we speak.

Hurricanes, typhoons, floods, storms, heat waves and other odd weather patterns are no different now than ever before, given that we’re talking about billions of years.

We’ve simply got bad memories and are easily led.:p

It isn’t a matter of ignoring GW, it’s pretending that we can do something about it, and making you pay for the honour!

Maybe it isn’t possible to do anything about Global Warming but if we’ve got to pay taxes why not shift those taxes onto something that may benefit all of us.

Britain is a relatively small producer of CO2 but we can hardly criticize the USA, China, India or anybody else if we don’t put our own house in order.

Even if Global Warming is some vast conspiracy fossil fuels will not last forever so promoting measures that conserve existing stocks and investing in alternative energy technology would seem wise. From a national security perspective is it also wise to be reliant on importing most of our energy; what happens when they turn the taps off in Russia, Saudi Arabia or anywhere in between?

And at any rate to import their oil and gas we have to export our wealth!

Britain opened the first commercial nuclear power station in 1956 and now Britain has decided to build more, but we are having to import the technology from France, and therefore export jobs, to a country that invested heavily in nuclear power because of the lack of domestic oil supply (and for national security reasons). Even Britain’s existing nuclear power stations were recently sold to a French energy company.

Great investments are being made in wind power in the UK but much of the technology and hardware is again being imported from countries such as Denmark that looked further into the future. We bemoan the loss of our traditional heavy industries but completely miss the opportunity to be at the forefront of new ones.

No.

Old Shape has convinced me. Everything is going to be absolutely fine, we don’t need to do anything, it will all sort itself out.

Fair enough precious few scientists agree with him, but what do they know? They don’t have anything like his expertise in these subjects.

I mean look at the statistics. If a Volcano can throw more carp (whatever that is) into the air than all the cars ever built then when the volcano does erupt it won’t matter one jot that, as well as all that carp from the volcano, we’ve got all the cars ever built as well.

Sleep safe in your beds chaps. Old Shape says there’s nothing to worry about, it’s all a plot by the UK government.

Moggy

Maybe…..but taxation is necessary and was happening long before anybody had ever heard of global warming.

Would you be happier if the government ignored global warming and just increased income tax?

Taxation is of course necessary….for things we need.

Your 2nd statement is an oxymoron, they will increase taxes to the maximum limit that is possible, and any excuse will do. The green types have handed them a goose laying golden eggs.
It isn’t a matter of ignoring GW, it’s pretending that we can do something about it, and making you pay for the honour!
It is the duty of the government to force you into a direction and then burn the bridge. Once cornered, the taxman puts your testicles in a vice. It doesn’t matter who, from Nazi to Commy and all points in between.

Hybrids…. they will be powering F1 cars in a few years time. 2009 will be the first year employing KERS. Expect to see technology trickling down into road cars.