Millions in Silver Bullion Found on Sunken WW2 Merchant Ship

Kev

Yes, you are right!

Missing RAF aircrew still lie at know sites in the UK. Not only will the MOD not issue a licence under the PMR Act, which is fair enough, but neither will they act to recover them themselves. A post-war Tempest pilot in the west country being a notable case in point. However, when it comes to bullion then the provisions of the PMR Act can be ignored, it seems.

Also, as a matter of interest, do you have the names of the 11 Brits? Their names should be at Tower Hill, but I haven’t researched them. I wonder what relatives would have to say? I’m surprised the press haven’t latched on to that. Maybe they will, now?

I think the Lascars will be commemorated in the Far East…but I forget where. Chittagong rings a bell but I’m probably wildly out.

Thank you, Kev.

Sky High.

I think there is a world of difference between an ocean going liner or indeed a pleasure yacht being lost at sea and a Merchant or Naval vessel being deliberately targeted and sunk by a belligerent nation, but none should be dived upon or salvaged from.

But we’re talking here about a Merchant ship sailing under contract to deliver not only silver, but iron ore and tea, that contract being to the Government of this Country. Those aboard who were lost died in the service of this Country. As the Gairsoppa was under military contract and had been sailing in convoy it should be subject to the PMR Act. Andy could probably tell us more about this but isn’t it true that in the past the MoD have ised the PMR Act to stop people recovering the remains of downed airmen for burial. Now though it seems the money on offer easily salves the consciences of those who have made the decision to allow this to happen.

Perhaps more shameful is the fact that I can’t identify any of the Lascars aboard who died when the ship was sunk.

Regards,

kev35

I understand. So, leaving aside the moral aspect, the law distinguishes between civilian and military “graves”.

SkyHigh

Whatever the moral principles involved, the Titanic is not protected by the PMR Act.

No – I did not mean to imply that you did.

So, in order that I can corretly understand your position, drowned vessels such as I described, should remain untouched. Is the retrieval of bodies, for reburial for example, assuming conditions are suitable, acceptable?

I ask purely for clarification not to start a debate on the subject.

Did I say I agreed with salvaging from the Titanic?

Regards,

kev35

Linc – “aged bits and bobs which have been sold by Auction in the States.from the TITANIC.”

But that’s my point – this wreck lies nearly 3000′ deeper than the Titanic.

Kev, Andy – would the same criteria not have applied to the Titanic? Any vessel, marine or airborne, civil or military, which sinks in the sea with people aboard is a grave. Are these vessels always sacrosanct from salvage?

It’s noticeble that the BBC refer only to those of the crew known to have boarded the lifeboats with absolutely no reference whatsoever to the remaining members of the crew.

There are only 11 members of the crew of the Gairsoppa registered with CWGC, plus I suspect another two who died trying to get ashore two weeks later.

It’s unutterably sad that money takes precedence over the eternal and inalienable responsibility we have to honour those who gave their lives in the service of their Country.

Regards,

kev35

Kev35

Exactly so.

I’m afraid it was exactly the same with HMS Edinburgh when it came to the British government’s greed to get the gold. And we are told that on this wreck there are unlikely to be any remains present. Oh really??

The PMR Act would apply in the case of this wreck. Thus, if it were accesible to ‘sport’ divers (which clearly it is not) then access to the site would be totally barred just as it is, for example, on HMS Royal Oak. In this particular case, ROV’s would presumably be used to recover the silver ingots but it makes no difference, really, whether access is by human or remotely. The end result is the same; a wreck that would otherwise be kept wholly sacrosant by the MOD under the PMR act is being allowed to have an instrusive salvage take place in order to grab a hugely valuable load of bullion.

Double standards.

According to the internet, some 81 men died who had been aboard the Gairsoppa. Of those some 32 are said to have boarded lifeboats. From that it appears that in the region of fifty of those men went down with the Gairsoppa. If that is so then surely it is a war grave? Bearing in mind that licences have been refused for aircraft recoveries in which it is suspected the body remains, how can a license even be considered when the graves of up to fifty men will be disturbed?

Or perhaps the British Government consider £600,000 per man to be an acceptable price for placing their morals in the back of some dark and dusty cupboard.

Disgusting.

Regards,

kev35

S.H. Pete, I stand to be corrected, but I think you will find an R.O.V. has salvaged bits and bobs which have been sold by Auction in the States.from the TITANIC.

I hope the technology he has, will do the job in salvaging this bullion, although it won’t be the same as finding stuff as he has from sunken Gallions etc of that period.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

I am sure of that, Linc – I didn’t mean to imply that the profits wouldn’t be worth it, but he is in unchartered waters – no one has salvaged this deep before, so there will be a risk, however calculated.

S.H. Pete. Having followed this Company on many of their ventures. They have all the gear needed to recover this bullion, their biggest problem, is all the days wasted, due to adverse weather conditions, believe me, this guy iis very canny, and if he were not going to make a “Mint” pardon the pun, he wouldn’t give it a seond thought. He is a Treasure Hunter of unbelievable dedication, and determination.
He was recently selling pieces of eight, which he had salvaged, and the asking price would make your eyes water, mind you, it’s hard work when you watch them at it.But believe me, he would have done his homework prior to making the deal.;)
Jim

Lincoln .7.

“As for what the government’s 20% should be spent on; does it really matter? In relative terms it is a tiny amount of cash and successive governments have wasted (and are going to waste) tens-of-billions more…….”

Exactly. £30 million is peanuts in the scale of waste so I think we can confidently to hear no more of it from HMG’s point of view. As for the £120 million for the salvagers I wonder how much of that will be spent salvaging it. There might not be much left at the end of the day……….

There was another fairly recent case in 2009 when the sunken HMS Victory (no, not that one) was located by the same US salvage company, Odyssey Marine Exploration. She could possibly have been carrying as much as $1billion in gold coins and has been positively located, in only 100 metres of water, and identified by bronze cannon that have been raised to the surface but so far it seems none of the gold has been recovered.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/guernsey/7866103.stm

I don’t think it is going to be as easy as it sounds to recover £150million of silver from over 4700metres deep!

I follow Odssey marine, and they undoubtably will in my opinion have no trouble getting the bullion up to the surface. I have seen their ship, submarine, rovers etc. The chap who runs this USA ship knows his job well, and has recovered millions in treasure from the sea floor.
You can subscribe to his web site.
C.D. I agree re getting Political on this. But it would be nice to know;)

Jim.

Lincoln .7

I think we have to be realistic about the costs of recovering this bullion and the fact that there are absolutely no guarantees that the salvor will get all, most, or any, of it to the surface.

As for what the government’s 20% should be spent on; does it really matter? In relative terms it is a tiny amount of cash and successive governments have wasted (and are going to waste) tens-of-billions more than this on NHS ‘Private Finance Initiatives’…

…but I really don’t want this to become another thread about the government and the NHS! 🙂

I would like to know what the powers to be will be doing with their share of the recovered silver.
No doubt they will do like G. Brown did with our gold, and sell it when it was nearly at a record low.

Or they could build new Hospitals, or prisons, which are much needed, but no, thats too simple for them to comprehend.
Jim.

Lincoln .7

Are they still allowed to disturb the wreck as it is a war grave? I believe 11 crew and 70 lascars died when the ship went down and a further two of the survivors died trying to get ashore on the Cornish coast.

The idea makes me uncomfortable.

Regards,

kev35

Me too:(