Shuttleworth Sunset Display – This Saturday

[The thing about Steve and that cone is that there was nothinhg the other side of the fence!

I beg to differ Darren me old son. This little beauty was the object of my desire at that exact moment, hence me not noticing the cone.

Well, that’s my story, and I’m sticking to it! 😀

Indeed DB, that’s why I help publish a magazine for modellers 😎 vide: http://www.mmpbooks.biz

But it’s still not a ‘primary source’ of data; and we are still waiting on proof.

We know Nivo was used on a/c of that period. I quite agree that it could be red, but we do know green was used, and there’s still no primary evidence for red (and there may be none, in which case being dogmatic is wrong because we don’t know – it’s into ‘best guess’ territory) but if Old Warden chose to paint it Nivo green, and Albert had told them it should be red, as he’s said, it’s got three possibilities:
1. They misread the instructions
2. They had better (or different) info they followed instead
3. They were wilfully awkward or liked green rather than red because it was ‘pretty’.

My money is on 2, for obvious reasons!

Cheers

Aha! JN-4 transforms herself from long time lurker, to active poster. 😀

I plead total ignorance of the cone’s existence at that particular point in time m’lud.

But the ointment is working fine, thanks. 😮

Hi Albert,
Thanks for that. However, you’ve yet to provide any evidence. I do know that certain 1920s and 30s aircraft of the RAF had a Nivo (a yukky green) painted upper decking from nose to tail; the Fairey Fox being the example that comes to mind. The green was in the position you are claiming should be red. Modern models, however good (and they are very nice) are not evidence. An interpretation of a b&w photo isn’t evidence either (as MOTF has proven) though it can help.

Have you got:
a piece of the fabric?
a contemporary report?
a painting instruction of the a/c?
Some other documentation?
Or some other evidence? Saying “you have to go by the facts” is great – where are “the facts”?
(I’m not doubting your word, or your research, but please provide your sources, and you have to admit that Shuttleworth may have better info than you.)

Cheers

[

And by the way, can’t wait to see some of those great high speed aircraft action shots of yours, especially the Chipmunk tail fin! 😀

Ah, leave her alone. She was doing her best and surrounded by people with intimidating cameras. It probably didn’t help that everyone was making fun of everyone else in loud voices all the time and some fat bloke with grey hair was talking about Kylie all the time.

Mind you watching JN4 beaming with pleasure at getting part of an aeroplane in shot made me wonder if she has ever gone fishing and caught just the head?

Melv

[

QUOTE=JN-4]

(those of you who saw my shots from the compact digital will remember that I’m a dab hand at capturing random sky myself!)

I do have one shot to share with you though, and if I can sort the technicalities of posting it, it should be attached..if not, it will magically appear later posted by someone far less Blonde than I!

I reckon anyone who knows my mate SteveYoung might appreciate it though…. answers on a postcard – what’s he doing? And what role does the cone play in all this???

The thing about Steve and that cone is that there was nothinhg the other side of the fence! I can only guess he was watching some kind of video playback on his camera! As to what the cone was being used for, I have NO idea! 😮

And by the way, can’t wait to see some of those great high speed aircraft action shots of yours, especially the Chipmunk tail fin! 😀

IMHO They wouldnt paint it green without good reason.

In these safety conscious times, would it be a type of Anti dazzle colour to protect the pilots from unwanted glare whilst displaying in bright conditions.

(Bright conditions!!!!)

Septic.

JN-4

Is he walking straight yet, looks painful if you ask me.

I wouldnt count your chickens just yet. It is a totally un scientific experiment. I can quite easily make the spine look the same shade as the wings.

IMHO They wouldnt paint it green without good reason.

I see I’m not the first person whose first visit to Old Warden has prompted a first post!

What a fab place, and how lovely to meet some of you for the first time, and see others again:D

I have to say – what fantastic photos you guys took too – thanks for helping me to remember a special day…

(those of you who saw my shots from the compact digital will remember that I’m a dab hand at capturing random sky myself!)

I do have one shot to share with you though, and if I can sort the technicalities of posting it, it should be attached..if not, it will magically appear later posted by someone far less Blonde than I!

I reckon anyone who knows my mate SteveYoung might appreciate it though…. answers on a postcard – what’s he doing? And what role does the cone play in all this???

Thanks Nick. That is indeed a great help….the spine still looks slightly darker than the red on the wings. I rest my case!

I’m not getting into the historical accuracy arguement, but I reckon that you’re better off taking it up in private with the Shuttleworth team, I will be interested to see the outcome.

In the meantime by means of a rough and ready comparison see the attached picture. Its taken in differing light conditions and has been artificially produced but I hope it helps.

FWIW I prefer the green spine than the red one shown on the models in your picture. Not that that matters much.

DEZ you should join the SVAS besides getting in at half price you get 15% of any goods bought in the shop over £5.get in absolutley free any othe time, get our Prop Swing magazine 3 times a year, if you want any more info on this contact me via e-mail

Preaching to the converted here. Mrs Moggy and I enrolled this weekend

BUT – BAD CUSTOMER PHILOSOPHY!

You want more people to join (They do, after all sign a standing order mandate so their customer lifetime value is high)?

Then offer a retrospective refund of 50% of the gate money they’ve just paid and publicise it over the tannoy. I reckon you’d easily double the number of subs sold.

Standard consumer marketing practice. The punter sees the immediate gain with no thought for the many years that they will continue to subscribe.

Works like a charm. You ask the storecard people in the big department stores, that’s what they do.

Moggy

OK Albert,
No offence, but I beg to differ…

1. It looks good (to me). 2. A b&w isn’t 100% proof – have you better evidence than that? 3. Do you know that they don’t have more (better) info? 4. So what? If it is wrong, that’s not good – but the collection has a better job to do (flying the world’s most historic collection of airworthy aircraft) than keeping pedants like you and I happy with very minor points.

Chippie:
Airbedane has asked, and the commentator has asked for a blown (Canadian) canopy or a lead on the same – they want to carry on getting it to Canadian configuration. In the meantime, deal – it’s a very distinctive Chipmunk.

Please bear in mind that the public (mum, dad & the kids) like colourful a/c – it boosts OW revenue, and that’s what we want, because we want to see these amazing a/c fly, and I don’t care if they are blue with purple spots*, as long as they aren’t nailed to the ground! Yes, they should get it right, but you chose – another 1/2 hour on paint scheme research, or a 1/2 hour on maintenance or rectification, or taking a break after putting on another show which is very hard work? Easy call, isn’t it. Let’s see the big pic.

Cheers

*OK I lie, but you get my point.

James,

Yes, yes, I know the main object is to keep the aircraft preserved in excellent flying condition and they do that well, BUT, this is supposed to be an authentic scheme that I proposed and researched for them. No one has any colour photos taken in 1933, so you have to go by the facts. We know the CFS aerobatic teams painted the upper fuselage decking on their 1932 Tiger Moth aerobatic team RED and the same with their Genet Moth team. Now look at this photo of the actual 1933 Tutor team and tell me the tones on the upper decking are not the same as the red on the wings? Also here is a photo of models of the CFS Tutor and Tiger Moth teams painted absolutely 100% accurately! I have informed Shuttleworth and I await their response!

Some more just for fun

DEZ you should join the SVAS besides getting in at half price you get 15% of any goods bought in the shop over £5.get in absolutley free any othe time, get our Prop Swing magazine 3 times a year, if you want any more info on this contact me via email.

If anyone can supply real proof that the Tutor’s upper deck should be red we would be obliged, again contact me via email.

A few of my pics. Didn’t manage many that were any good in that light, but I was pretty pleased with this one of Denny.

Apologies for not catching up with you all. Will definitely try and say hello next time….

went to the Vintage model show on Sunday (a regular Old Warden pilgrimage) I was really worried hearing about the new shop etc that they had converted Hangar 1 (my favourite place in the world…ever) but worries unfounded – the new work is brilliant, the PO-2 was fab, the Tutor paint scheme is superb and was completely confused by John Allison’s bonkers glider…never mind the Wallace replica!

They still employ the very rude rather large lady in the shop though – I’ve been going to Shuttleworth for 20 years and i’ve never seen her be polite to anyone!!!

Has anyone actually contacted Old Warden to ask them why it is Green? There may be a very good reason.

If people are going to paint aircraft in authentic schemes, they MUST be right! I supplied Shuttleworth with all the reference photos for the Tutor. Although they are b/w, it is quite obvious the top decking should be RED!

Quite agree Albert, my comment was made in jest, Have you told them?