I would hazard a guess that the A400 is probably doing more damage than the Ralae! its one of those things that you would love to see your enemy caught up in and waste his resource on.

Hmm i feel sorry for the ACM at the moment, and Bring it On i totally agree with your points in some cases even though i am playing devils advocate! for me if they are going to spend another 16Billion or so on the MMRCA then there is nothing better then the Su-30MKi even if it is a single seat version, and i would still prefer that because non of the aircraft mentioned really fits well for the IAF.

and the scary thing for me would be to mimic the Italian Airforce pre world war 2 when it was considered the best equiped airforce in the world with the latest aircraft until the war started that is and they found they they had become a bit obsolete but couldnt afford new aircraft.

He did mention that, or something of the sort was reported on one of the articles on the board.

I thought the MMRCA contract was about getting the IAF the squadrons it needs, thats why they were in such a hurry.

Their is soo much involved in all this, even if the IAF go for a US aircraft their is not garauntee it would get the technology to allow HAL to use it elsewhere, there are soo many little sneaks and laws to get around when dealing with the USA.

Again you’ve gone in with the classical approach , the IAF and IN are committing themselves to the NC environ where the classical approach is very flexible and we dont look at indivigual systems perforamce but look at what its contribution is to the network as a whole , and what increases the network sees with the addition of this system . The indians have a mig-35 with its agility etc but dont have the avionics of the F-18E/F ( damn good integrated avionics with a 2nd gen AESA flying , new gen. targeting pod and top quality EW and ECM equipment) and as a weapons system it isnt even in the same league , How does the system’s capability improved?? Look at the F-18E/F and it as a weapons suite as modern aircrafts are very close to being just weapons systems, it brings in a lot of options to do coordinated strikes , use the LARGEST available PGM type inventory in the world , the network can choose between taking in cheap weaponry and destroying multiple multiple targets with one aircraft . Infact people keep talking about the gripen being a NC leader i counter that with the fact that the E/F is perhaps the most well rounded NC operator currently flying , not only does it have the DL and top link technology (IFDL option) but also a true NC champion in the strike role aswell . The USAF/USN has been improving on their NC capability for decades and this has been validated in war. Look at the Gulf war , 6-8 aircrafts were needed to take out one attack target whereas a decade later in afganistan they needed 1 aircraft for every 2 targets , they were able to destroy as many targets using 300 sorties per day as they did with 2000 sorties per day in GW1 . the advent of the JDAM changed all of this and it gave the option to attack multiple targets per sortie , the SDB takes it even farther , with the AESA in the block 2 the F-18E/F needent rely on anti homers but can use the SDB to target a radar site from 60 nm out or use a JDAM for that matter . infact if you look at a 10-15 year history of modern military programs int he west nothing has perhaps been more revoultionary and cost effective as a JDAM – the damn thing was supposed to cost 25K and a ceiling was put on 40K per unit , yet they acheived a cost of 18K for every complete JDAM . To give you a acount of how cost effective it is to procure JDAM the Factories currently produce over 100 JDAM’s every day bringing the cost down to 15000-18000$ per unit . Moreover there are other wonder weapons that are comming in very cheap , the LOCAAS for example costs 35K and gives you the capability of self coordinated attack , target discrimination , multi type warhead explosion and the ability to loiter for 1/2 hour all at a SO range of around 100nm or so , there are hoards of examples the SMACM is just another small cruise missile that can be launced from 200nm and 18 can be carried on your F-18E/F . These weapons and a lot lot more (dual seeker weapons , JASSM,JSOW,SDB) are going to be pivotal in providing tailor made and cost effective targeting in strike missions and their cost means that they can be used i big no.s and are effective and proven sollutions and one aircraft can kill 2,3,4 upto 8 targets and still have bombs left over to kill TOO with proper refuels . All in all this means greater lethality .

What this does to the network you might ask?? Well for one it overloads it with options ( a good thing) . You have a particular airspace , the battle manager sees his assets well dispursed in there and all of a sudden you get a ground pop of a High digit SAM which has just gone active , what do you do ?? do you wait for a golden bee bee 1 million dollar a pop platinum coated missile to come up from an asset which does not form the bulk of your force , wait until it is ready and in range , get the support assets to provide support all in all the enemy has control over the airspace , however look at the flip side there are multiple F-18E/F’s flyin around mixed missions carryin a pair or 2 of LOCAAS neatly tucked away ( remember they can carry 18 on a full load) , you give them the coordinates and mapping from the AESA , let them loose , let them find the radar , discriminate autonomously (or otherwise) between the radar and the tank which is just parked next to it and you are on your way , infact these weapons can go onto the LCA , M2K and other smaller assets aswell . HAS YOUR NETWORK BENIFITED?? Sure it has . Lets move on to penetrability

You have a mighty flanker and are looking for a complimentary MRCA aircraft. what does the E/F bring to the picture . Firstly you have damn fine missile as a BVR and WVR weapon , what it looses in kinematics the system makes up for it with the ample ammount of Su-30MKI’s ( ratio about 1.5:1 if the current no.s are to be beleived) , the main enemy doesnt have any high kinetic threat that the flanker cannot deal with , for the others you have the other fighters , you take a load of legacy aircraft and combine the combo of the Su-30MKI with its weapons load and the E/F with its wepaons loads and see what combination brings the most capability to the table , the E/F has a wide selection of PGM’s can narrow down to percission guidance with AESA , can search airspace and drop bombs ( only aircraft that is doing it currently) . Infact compare these parameters to allt he combinations and see what combination can kill the most ground targets , defend the largest possible airspace , and do those things simeltaniously in an ever changing fluid enviroment. Infact the F-18E/F is doing a lot of things now , something that wont be performed by competition till much much later ( if at all) , there is greater likely hood of modern PGM’s comming in w/o development because there is a Humoungous demand for them in the west , the USAF and USN is commiting itself to a new A2A missile to replace the Aim-120 with elements which may be used to further improve the aim-120 in the transitionary phase . No single country spends more money developing smarter and productive weaponry then US and for that alone the E/F looks very bright as there will almost always be a steady flow of top quality weaponry which wont be available from elsewhere . Furthermore dont look for top end performers in the stringent static parameters of the past , for those KICK DOWN THE DOOR type of ops the Su-30MKI allready exists in no.s , for everything else it is much wiser to find what complements the MKI the best and what combination perfroms the best . the E/F and MKI will be a very very lethal combo , the MKI can deal with the high and fast sprinters while the E/F will be suffeceint for everything else ( even the fast sprinters provided the aim-120D and higher missiles) and will add much needed PER CAPITA target destruction boost . Morever we often talk about the kinetic disadvantage of the E/F however this disadvantage lessens considerably when you consider NC environ , you dont want to have to scramble forces to defend a base comming from attack from hoards of J-17’s because in the NC environ you want to link up your AD with the AWACS and the battle managers should be alerting the E/F drivers much earler of imenent threat , that is the essence of NC warfare ie. to have the right asset available at the right time with the right weaponry.

Ofcourse strings and everything being equal.

I read this before going to work but couldnt really responce, unfortunately although i do agree with you that the F/A-18 does have better weaponisation then anything else (except the F-16) being offered i really do not see India having the use of any of them without prior permission.

I am sure you remember the provisos rendered on the Indian Navy when they were offered the P-3B refurbished. It would have made the Aircraft completely useless!

Same will most likely apply to the F/A-18s! We wont get full TOT and you can bet that the part we dont get TOT (the electronics) is the area we will be rendered useless!

I had completely forgotten that the RAFALE was part of the contest! I do like that aircraft also!

ROFL Do you have any evidence or cites to back that up?

http://indiaenews.com/2006-08/18138-indians-forced-iraq-freed.htm

Yeah its absolutely ridiculous America using its armed forces for what they were designed for, you know fighting people who want to harm America. :rolleyes: 😀

Tottally, because lets face it and be tottally realistic here if the Freedom fries people had not gone to war with the over whelming and powerfull WMD wielding satanic forces of the Saddam SS it would have been fighting for its very survival and for the FREEDOM of all those Americans that are still living under British rule : :confused: .

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As an Indian living the UK, i have to sit and wonder at the influence of British Colonial rule on the psyche of that colony, even after soo many years of freedom from British rule; americans are still fighting for freedom.

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Oh and can we please just call a spade a spade and just say it was about oil, and for a springboard for the American military into the middle east.

Can we hope to see some HDW submarines for the IN now? :diablo: :dev2: 😀

India, Germany to sign defence agreement
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Saturday, September 2nd, 2006

New Delhi – More than four months after Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s visit to Berlin that brought an upswing in bilateral ties, specially in the area of high technology cooperation, India and Germany would sign their first-ever joint defence cooperation agreement next week.

This crucial agreement, to be signed during the visit of Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee to Germany and France beginning Sunday, would provide India access to German hi-tech weapons technology and facilitate intensive interaction between the armed forces of the two countries.

‘The agreement will open doors of German technology transfer to India and provide the framework for holding joint naval exercises and more interaction between the armed forces of the two countries,’ a defence ministry spokesman said here.

Besides meeting Defence Minister Franz Josef Jung and Minister for Technology and Economics Michael Gloss, Mukherjee would also address the top brass of German defence industries.

The minister would also pay homage at Zehrensdorf Indian cemetery where graves of 206 Indian soldiers, who died as prisoners during the First World War, lie.

The minister would hold talks with his French counterpart Michele Aliottee and is likely to use this meeting to allay anxieties in the armament industry about the growing India-US defence ties.

They might discuss the possibility of India buying French nuclear equipment and technology after the India-US nuclear deal is cleared by the US Congress and approved unanimously by the 45-nation Nuclear Suppliers Group.

Mukherjee would also meet top CEOs of defence firms, including the European consortium EADS, Thales and Aviation giant Dassault, at a round table.

The Indian delegation accompanying Mukherjee also comprises S. Banerjee, Director General Acquisition, Chief of the Integrated Defence Staff Lt. Gen. H.S. Lidder, eminent missile scientist Prahlada, Sujata Singh, joint secretary in the external affairs ministry and Gautam Chatterji, joint secretary in the defence ministry.

Maybe the Germans want to offload some A400Ms onto India.