mattEven if the LCA only meets parity with the other aircraft the very fact that it is indigenious will go a long way for Indias long term stratigic interests!
The only reason India should by any US aircraft is if the US promises to back out of afghanistan stop funding the pakistani state military and the ISI and leave Indias back yard!
If the indians want a western omnirole aircraft let it buy the Eurofighter atleast it is a class above all of the offers on the table!
mattSupermarine Spitfire!
BF 109
de Havilland Mosquito
mattSuper Hornet is not a joke. It is the best strike fighter in service anywhere in the world. With all the weapon stations it has, a group can self escort themselves while still having a decent A2G load.
F 16 IN should be cheaper to procure and to operate and marginally better in close quarter combat. But in everything else the F 18 has an edge. I like single engined birds so its the F 16 or Gripen for me.
Teer did you check the locked thread ? Your claim that AK 47 was not a battle rifle was shown up.
And the IAF’s Jaguar is the best dog fighting beyond visual range fighter aircraft in the history of aerospace.
matt“In fact, the Indian Navy has expressed an interest in the F-35B which has short-takeoff and vertical-landing capability for aircraft carrier operations,” Prins informed the media. “It (the F-16) is the bridge to the F-35 for India.”
The fifth-generation F-35 Lightning II joint strike fighter is currently being developed with first deliveries slated for 2010. Lockheed, Pentagon’s biggest contractor by sales, is also looking at civil contracts from the Indian government.
This is marketing speak for,
” yes our aircraft is crap but if you do pay the millions, we want to keep our work force happy we will happily think about maybe selling you something similar to a F-35B that we are currently selling 5-10 countries already..
oh and by the way there is actually no techincal reason why you shouldnt have the F-35B if you wanted but, well we would rather sell you this rust bucket because it keeeps the senators of our backs.”
But with congress back in power surely we wont buy more old US junk that is actually well below what the Indian Armed forces deserve.
mattI have always wondered if the Indian congress was being sponsered by outside intelligence firms and some events make me thing that they are..
mattReason for the first failure of a Brahmos test
With the number of GPS jammers available in the world this is a serious flaw to the Brahmos! its not a small issue..
mattThe F 18 E/F offered to the IAF is the same version as the one operated by USN, Boeing is already marketing Growler lite ( without EA ) and considers India as a potential export customer. None of the European AF have a comparable platform.
The F 16IN will be the most advanced F 16 ever better than the UAE one.
The Eurofighter Nations are offering India full program partnership, something they didn’t even consider with regards to the Saudis, so if India selected the types the next tranches will probably have a lot of Indian inputs. It will be equal to the European versions and better than Saudi ones.
The Rafale F3 is offered with 100% ToT according to the Dassault V.P sales, :diablo:
The Gripen IN will be better than any Gripen currently in service :rolleyes:
Matt its you who need to wake up. tak tak tak 😎
Being sold a version of an aircraft whoes capabilities are in question in the first place does not mean you have something world leading.
F/A-18 E/F overweight version of its younger brother with poor aeroperformance and structural issues, designed for carrier deck landing.
Whoop ti dooo india is being sold the most advanced version of the F-16! Also lets see the aircraft before you say its more advanced then the UAE one. Were are not being offered the F-16XL or X-31. No matter how much I “pimp” my mountain bike its still a mountain bike I wouldnt take it to a race against a Duccatti!
with the rest, until India gets it and it proves to be more advanced then the saudis their is no point in commenting.
Rafale F3, troubled programme which urgently needs sales to keep its production lines profitable. Not world leading..
As for the Eurofighter, how would it be more advanced then the Saudis’ Eurofighters? And how many minutes do you think it will last befire the Saudis spend a few more billions and get an upgrade?
mattThe F 18 E/F offered to the IAF is the same version as the one operated by USN, Boeing is already marketing Growler lite ( without EA ) and considers India as a potential export customer. None of the European AF have a comparable platform.
The F 16IN will be the most advanced F 16 ever better than the UAE one.
The Eurofighter Nations are offering India full program partnership, something they didn’t even consider with regards to the Saudis, so if India selected the types the next tranches will probably have a lot of Indian inputs. It will be equal to the European versions and better than Saudi ones.
The Rafale F3 is offered with 100% ToT according to the Dassault V.P sales, :diablo:
The Gripen IN will be better than any Gripen currently in service :rolleyes:
Matt its you who need to wake up. tak tak tak 😎
Being sold a version of an aircraft whoes capabilities are in question in the first place does not mean you have something world leading.
F/A-18 E/F overweight version of its younger brother with poor aeroperformance and structural issues, designed for carrier deck landing.
Whoop ti dooo india is being sold the most advanced version of the F-16! Also lets see the aircraft before you say its more advanced then the UAE one. Were are not being offered the F-16XL or X-31. No matter how much I “pimp” my mountain bike its still a mountain bike I wouldnt take it to a race against a Duccatti!
with the rest, until India gets it and it proves to be more advanced then the saudis their is no point in commenting.
Rafale F3, troubled programme which urgently needs sales to keep its production lines profitable. Not world leading..
As for the Eurofighter, how would it be more advanced then the Saudis’ Eurofighters? And how many minutes do you think it will last befire the Saudis spend a few more billions and get an upgrade?
mattAlmost 90% of the Indian military equipments are Soviet origin and India was tilted towards USSR. So how would you expect the West to give ‘truely world leading’ systems???!!! But of course the scenario is changed now…. (C-130J, P-8I, USS Ternton, Missile Defence, Space, Scorpene submarines as well as MRCA).
Ok we have been buying soviet equipment but we have also been buying European equipment.. The jaguars were sold to India when even the countries who made were having trouble with the beast. Ex RN aircraft carrier sold to India post Falklands with tonns and tonns of concrete. Hawk trainer aircraft again old design nothing world leading.
As for the C130J look at the price of the aircraft and look at the listed equipment, nothing ground breaking. Yes the C130J is a relatively new aircraft but even that was a troubled programme. But again nothing on the list is classed as World leading.. i.e. something that India has which is far more advanced then its originator country.
P-8I, You cannot say it is cutting edge, its based on a ex airliner and doesnt not mean that india would have NOT have the same capabilities if the Indian navy transfered the gadgetry in its current maritime surveilence aircraft into a ex airliner. Nothing their proves it is world leading!
US trenton, Ex USN ship … again nothing world leading, infact its a waste of money and would have probably gone on the scrap heap if india had not bought it.
Missile defense? hmm I do not think we have bought anything from the west as of yet.
Scorpene also being sold to pakistan, 1 year france sells india subs, then goes to pakistan and offers more modern ones then comes back to india after its sold pakistan the advanced ones and sells us something more advance then pakistans.. but nothing is world leading.
MRCA, hmm lets see the specifications first and and lets actually get the aircraft before you decide if it will be world leading.
BTW my terms for world leading are something like the Eurfighter with AESA Thrust vectoring and a bloomin Cannon! ( 🙂 ) ..
I apreciate where you are coming from, but sometimes I just think we get over optimistic and forget that we are still being sold knocked down spec equipment.
mattAlmost 90% of the Indian military equipments are Soviet origin and India was tilted towards USSR. So how would you expect the West to give ‘truely world leading’ systems???!!! But of course the scenario is changed now…. (C-130J, P-8I, USS Ternton, Missile Defence, Space, Scorpene submarines as well as MRCA).
Ok we have been buying soviet equipment but we have also been buying European equipment.. The jaguars were sold to India when even the countries who made were having trouble with the beast. Ex RN aircraft carrier sold to India post Falklands with tonns and tonns of concrete. Hawk trainer aircraft again old design nothing world leading.
As for the C130J look at the price of the aircraft and look at the listed equipment, nothing ground breaking. Yes the C130J is a relatively new aircraft but even that was a troubled programme. But again nothing on the list is classed as World leading.. i.e. something that India has which is far more advanced then its originator country.
P-8I, You cannot say it is cutting edge, its based on a ex airliner and doesnt not mean that india would have NOT have the same capabilities if the Indian navy transfered the gadgetry in its current maritime surveilence aircraft into a ex airliner. Nothing their proves it is world leading!
US trenton, Ex USN ship … again nothing world leading, infact its a waste of money and would have probably gone on the scrap heap if india had not bought it.
Missile defense? hmm I do not think we have bought anything from the west as of yet.
Scorpene also being sold to pakistan, 1 year france sells india subs, then goes to pakistan and offers more modern ones then comes back to india after its sold pakistan the advanced ones and sells us something more advance then pakistans.. but nothing is world leading.
MRCA, hmm lets see the specifications first and and lets actually get the aircraft before you decide if it will be world leading.
BTW my terms for world leading are something like the Eurfighter with AESA Thrust vectoring and a bloomin Cannon! ( 🙂 ) ..
I apreciate where you are coming from, but sometimes I just think we get over optimistic and forget that we are still being sold knocked down spec equipment.
mattname some technologies India has been given by the west which is truely world leading..
mattname some technologies India has been given by the west which is truely world leading..
mattThat depends on how much money flows back and how life cycle costs add up. Figure the offsets into it (especially in case India becomes the fifth consortium member) and the former will be somewhat mitigated. As for the latter, EF GmbH expects to be quite competitive there.
I would come to a different conclusion here. The AESA is available as a customer option and there’s no reason India would be denied this. I don’t think anyone would stand in the way of that.
Yes, everybody wants everything to be cheap in price, excellent in performance, and available yesterday. I got the impression that ToT, industrial offsets, corporate networking and geopolitical positioning are as important in this deal as the plane itself, so I wouldn’t put as much emphasis on immediate availability personally. Especially with something like the radar, where an upgrade deal could be put in place beforehand.
Well, we’ll see. 🙂
Yeah you could buy the EFA and put on the 2052 as a MLU but seriously i think people on here sometimes get to optimistic especially lately after the nuclear deal with the US. India is still viewed in the west with concern.
It is a nice pipe dream and for the sake of the IAF i hope they get something better then the aircraft currently flying with the UAE and Saudi airforces but lets wait and see..
I think the only real one hope for India is a Russian plane with a 2052 radar! Put the AESA radar into the Su-30Mki!
mattThat depends on how much money flows back and how life cycle costs add up. Figure the offsets into it (especially in case India becomes the fifth consortium member) and the former will be somewhat mitigated. As for the latter, EF GmbH expects to be quite competitive there.
I would come to a different conclusion here. The AESA is available as a customer option and there’s no reason India would be denied this. I don’t think anyone would stand in the way of that.
Yes, everybody wants everything to be cheap in price, excellent in performance, and available yesterday. I got the impression that ToT, industrial offsets, corporate networking and geopolitical positioning are as important in this deal as the plane itself, so I wouldn’t put as much emphasis on immediate availability personally. Especially with something like the radar, where an upgrade deal could be put in place beforehand.
Well, we’ll see. 🙂
Yeah you could buy the EFA and put on the 2052 as a MLU but seriously i think people on here sometimes get to optimistic especially lately after the nuclear deal with the US. India is still viewed in the west with concern.
It is a nice pipe dream and for the sake of the IAF i hope they get something better then the aircraft currently flying with the UAE and Saudi airforces but lets wait and see..
I think the only real one hope for India is a Russian plane with a 2052 radar! Put the AESA radar into the Su-30Mki!
mattAre you kidding…right?
Bit of an exxageration but people should get the point!
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