mattThe submarine “Nerpa” will remain in Russia
Chief of General Staff of the Armed Forces of Russian Army General Nikolai Makarov said that the multipurpose nuclear submarine “Nerpa”, after testing, will be adopted by the Russian Navy, and will not be sold or leased to the Indian Navy, as previously planned, said “Rossiyskaya Gazeta”.[official governmental newspaper]
As the boat itself is not affected by the recent disaster, the test program will continue after the completion of the investigation, and then the boat will be incorporated into the Pacific Fleet. The funds that are necessary to complete the task will be allocated by the Russian budget – in accordance with the budget proceedings or as an extraordinary allocation for the purchase of new military equipment and weapons.
END QUOTE.
http://www.lenta.ru/news/2008/11/18/nerpa2/NB: I would still wait and see. On the other hand, I warned about this already a year ago.
I do not understand the suddent change of heart, unless Indian engineers were on board and it was one of them who set off the Freeon. I do not understand this reaction at all.
what has the accident to do with transfering the ship to india? Unless china has been vocal about this deal to the russians.
mattMoscow Considering Purchase of Admiral Gorshkov Carrier
(Source: Forecast International; issued November 17, 2008)
MOSCOW — The latest development in the saga that has been the modernization of the Admiral Gorshkov for the Indian Navy, Russian naval and defense industry officials have indicated that Russia may acquire the vessel if India is unwilling to provide the $2 billion needed to finance the extensive retrofit.
On November 13, Deputy General-Director of Sevmash (Severodvinsk Machine Building Enterprise) Sergey Novoselov told RIA Novosti new agency that, “On the market, the price of an aircraft carrier like that varies from three to four billion dollars. The renovations being done at the moment at Sevmash are worth 60-70 per cent of the cost of a new aircraft carrier. That’s an approximate sum of up to two billion dollars. Of course, that figure needs refining.”
“We are essentially constructing a new aircraft carrier at the open assembly berth of Sevmash. In the last two years, work has only proceeded thanks to internal loans. The construction of any vessel, especially one like this, needs constant and uninterrupted financing,” he added, as quoted in the report.
When the contract for the Admiral Gorshkov was signed by Russia and India in 2004, the cost of modernizing the aircraft carrier was agreed at $617 million dollars, Novoselov said, adding that there was no-one to blame for the difference that has formed between the initial and current prices.
“If India won’t pay the money, we will keep the aircraft carrier ourselves. It will be very useful to us, because the situation in the world is complicated. Vessels like that are needed to patrol the waters of the Atlantic and the Mediterranean,” noted a Russian defense industry official.
In such a scenario, Russia would have to compensate India for the money it has already spent on modernizing the vessel. “That’s about 400 million dollars,” the source said, as quoted in the RIA Novosti report.
mattWhich, translates into India getting her hands on the ship in 2013 and it entering service in 2014! Remember, the ships was suppose to be delivered
in 2008 after nearly a decade of negotiations!!!! At this point the first CVF’s and Gerald R Ford Carriers could be in service and neither are even laid down yet…………..;)
Well the more serious matter may be that the String of pearls would be fully complete by then and the Chinese deep dock in pakistan would be fully working!
Lets not forget chinas ambitions for an Aircraft Carrier, maybe by then Pakistan would be too busy negotiating its way out of debt to be to much hasle to India but China certainly wont be! if anything It should come out of this financial chrisis as the worlds super power.
mattGorshkov’s delivery to Indian Navy delayed till 2012
Vinay Shukla
Moscow, Nov 11 (PTI) Russia today said the delivery of Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier to the Indian Navy would be delayed till 2012 as the vessel could be refitted only sometime in 2010.
It also said that since last year New Delhi has not made any payments although the extra work to the tune of USD 1.7 billion has been done by the shipyard.
The 44.5-thousand tonner Kiev class aircraft carrier was to be initially commissioned as INS Vikramaditya in August this year under the USD 1.5 billion deal signed in January 2004, which included the refit of the vessel and supply of 16 MiG-29K fighters.
According to an unnamed representative of Severodvinsk-based Sevmash shipyard, Gorshkov will be launched in early December, probably to coincide with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev’s maiden visit to India.
After launching it would be moored to the assembly wall for the completion of its refit.
“At this juncture, the completion of work in 2010 would be realistic. Two more years would be required to complete the vessel’s sailing trials, including testing its aircraft in the severe conditions of Barents Sea,” the shipyard ‘representative’ was quoted as saying by ITAR-TASS.
Sea going and flying trials of the refitted aircraft carrier will be conducted by the Russian crew trained on the “Admiral Kuznetsov” aircraft carrier in service with the Russian Navy. PTI
mattSo its just a drone?
hmm… why limit the altitude to just 10,000ft? also why have such a slow speed?
Cant they make the Brahmos into a Drone?
matt-along with higher cruising speed
-greater instantaneous/sustained turn rates
-higher rate of climb
-greater situational awareness
-first look, first shoot, first killbut aside from that, I can see how the F-22 is a compromised design. 😎
Ofcourse its a compromised design! so is every other design that is not based on the LAVI!
But seriously what modern “multi role” fighter jet is not compromised?
What is this thing about Canards being aerodynamic in efficient btw?
mattAs per an article by Mr. Ashok Parthasarthy and Vice-Admiral (retd) Raman Puri, although the Tejas was initially conceived as nothing but a replacement to the MiG-21, the IAF’s draft requirements for it were practically those of the Mirage-2000. However, the authors say that the “public perception” has been “etched” that Tejas is merely a MiG-21 replacement.
Blah typo my apologies, i meant to say that the LCA was always meant to be a 1-1 replacement of the Mig-21! and if it was kept as such as a point defense aircraft it would have been in service earlier and help arrest the the depletion in IAF squadron strength and allowed the ADA or IAF to work on the MCA and not be in a situation where it is forced to buy a stop gap MMRCA!
mattmatt, as per this article by noted defence journalist, Col. Ajai Shukla, the total weight reduction on Tejas possible can be of the order of 600-700 kgs. This constitutes removal of the testing intrumentation and ‘re-engineering’ the displays (presumably CRT) to be LCD flat screens.
The above is inaccurate. As repeatedly pointed out earlier, as the Tejas can carry the external payload and fuel load equal to the serving MiG-29’s and MiG-27s of the IAF, it is not only merely a MiG-21 replacement, but it can currently supplant the entire fleets of MiG-23/27 and MiG-29s of the IAF.
Thus, as it can be used for medium range surgical strikes, it is eligible to be an M.R.C.A. It can also carry out counter strikes over enemy airspaces to establish air superiority.
Abhimanyu I would not argue with you, you know your stuff but if we take the penultimate paragraph where you mention the loads and the ranges the LCA can now carry and what the initial design intent (presented to media not the intent that may have been privy to the ADA and HAL insiders) you cannot argue that the LCA was never ment to be a 1-1 replacement for the Mig 21 although a more advanced replacement.
My argument is that it is possibly because of the increase in requirements for the LCA that it has the potential to be just a bomb truck and nothing more.
The load and range you mentioned will be covered by the MRCA
mattWell there is a reason that the weight was low in the first place. yes they can get a more powerfull engine and beef up the structure to cope with all the extra bells and whistles the IAF wants on its LCA but then you have to go and find a more powerful engine to cope with that!
Now if the extra 700kgs also includes in it an extra 300kgs of fuel then excellent!
The LCA should have been kept lighter.. It is supposed to replace a point defense fighter there is no need for the LCA to be an strike/interdict aircraft when the IAF has in its inventory Jaguars! Mirage 2000s Su 30MKI’s and Mig 29s!
Yes for sure the ADA can reduce further weight by lightening some of the other systems.. or some of the other structures but that would require expensive re-certification.
30% weight saving on the landing gear could be made by using composite materials but we would be kidding ourselves if we think it would make up for the increase in 700Kgs!
I guess IAF just got it self a small version of the Tornado.
mattOk so with the removal on board telemetry equipment the LCA can shave of 300Kgs or so, but the LCA is 1 Tons overweight what happens to the other 700 or so Kg’s?
How will they save that?
mattSeriously though why are people suprised ? or why would it be a controversy after so many years of reverse engineering and evolutionary modifications to old airframes they were bound to come onto a good aircraft sooner or later! Also if it is a LAVI pedigree it should be a less of a suprise!
mattTwenty die on Russian submarine
The submarine is reported to be an Akula-class vessel like this
At least 20 people have died in an accident on a Russian nuclear submarine when a fire extinguishing system was activated by mistake.
Russian Pacific Fleet spokesman Igor Dygalo said both sailors and shipyard workers died in the accident, which occurred during sea trials.
The dead were suffocated by freon gas, which is used to put out fires as it removes oxygen from the air.
The vessel was not damaged and there was no radiation leak, Mr Dygalo said.
It is the worst incident for the navy since the sinking of the Kursk submarine in 2000, which left 118 dead.
Injured evacuated
Military prosecutors are investigating the incident, but the name and class of the submarine involved have not been officially revealed.
There were 208 people on board at the time, 81 of whom were servicemen. The dead are reported to be six sailors and 14 civilians.
Russian TV speculated on how the accident might have happened
Twenty-one injured people, reported to be suffering from various degrees of poisoning, were transferred from the submarine to the destroyer Admiral Tributs and taken to hospitals near Vladivostok.
The dead were transferred to morgues nearby after the vessel, which had been undergoing sea trials in the Sea of Japan, returned to port at Bolshoi Kamen, near Vladivostok, in the far eastern Primorsky territory.
Capt Dygalo said the incident happened after the fire extinguishing system “went off unsanctioned”.
The BBC’s Richard Galpin in Moscow says that in normal cases of a fire on board a submarine, the area would be evacuated and sealed off before pumping in freon gas. RUSSIAN SUBMARINE DISASTERS
6 Sept 2006: Two die after fire in Viktor-III class Daniil Moskovsky
28 Aug 2003: Nine die after decommissioned November class K-159 sinks
12 Aug 2000: 118 die in sinking of Oscar-II class Kursk
7 Apr 1989: 42 die after fire in Soviet-era Komsomolets
The gas removes oxygen from the air – to put out the fire – but if anyone is still trapped inside that area, they face suffocation.
Vladimir Markin, an official from Russia’s top investigative agency, later said forensic tests had confirmed that freon was the cause of death.
Reports say the incident occurred in the nose of the submarine. The nuclear reactor, which is in the stern, was not affected.
“I declare with full responsibility that the reactor compartment on the nuclear-powered submarine is working normally and the radiation background is normal,” Capt Dygalo said, quoted by Itar-Tass news agency.
Indian link
A shipyard source told the RIA Novosti news agency the vessel was the K-152 Nerpa, an Akula-class submarine, but this has not been confirmed.
Twenty die on Russian submarine
The Nerpa is due to be leased to the Indian navy, and Indian naval personnel were due to travel to Vladivostok earlier this month to train on board the submarine ahead of its transfer, according to the website Indian Defence.
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev is being kept fully informed about the incident, his press service said.
Deputy Defence Minister Alexander Kolmakov and Navy Commander-in-Chief Vladimir Vysotsky are flying to the scene of the incident.
Russia’s worst submarine disaster happened in August 2000, when the nuclear-powered Kursk sank in the Barents Sea. All 118 people on board died.
The then president, Vladimir Putin, was criticised for being slow to react to the incident and reluctant to call in foreign assistance.
______________________________________________
I have heard of IAF personal using karosene camping stoves on the ramps to their AN 32s on a runway with aviation gas and gas tank right next to them at RAF Northolt (before they were banned!) I wonder if this is for a similar reason if there is a IN connection!
mattDJCROSS,
Although I was not asking the question of why a particular configuration is chosen your post is certainly ensightful for some members.
I generally just wanted to know the spar layout of the LCA and also to get an Idea of what the wing structure is like.
mattIf the Kuznetsovs lifts are such a bottleneck why where they not moved like the Varyag?
Obviously not clued in on Navy stuff but are the lifts the single biggest reasons the kuznetsov can deploy less aircraft than the varyag?
Wont the Royal Navy have to sail its carrier without any aircraft for a few years due to budget constraints?
mattmatt, the above as stated by Dr. Natarajan, the above is due to the low thrust of the current GE-404 F2J3 engine.
Now, as per ADA’s official website, the projected G limit of Tejas is 9 G. However, as per an interview of Dr. Natarajan a few months earlier, he stated that the IAF’s ASRs was only 8 g.
Thus, it may be possible that IAF may have revised it’s requirement to 8g only recently, because the ADA’s website has displayed the 9 g limit since past many years, which could not have been possible without a mandate from the IAF.It may be hoped that the Kaveri engine (which, as pointed by coldfire2005, has achieved a breakthrough) will help Tejas achieve the 8g or 9g limit when it is installed on Tejas next year.
So 6.5g/8g limit is not due to over weight electronics causing higher than calculated stresses on the multi spar wing? ( I suspect the issue be down to high than designed stresses in the wing spars and wing skins rather than the limitation being caused by a lower than required engine thrust)
Does anyone know what they mean by multi spar wing? I understand wings will have multiple spars but does the ADA mean that the wing has a span wise segmented spar sections instead of say 2 spars from wing root to wing tip?
Is the LCA spar a composite spar or is it aluminium?
What is the Nitinol used for? Are they going to change the effective angle of attack with some form of Nitinol ring ala the F/A-18?
Aircraft Materials
Metallic Materials
Composite Materials
Materials
Up to 75% of the metallic materials, used in LCA, are indigenous
High strength Al-Cu alloys, Al-Zn alloys in the form of control stretched flats, forging stocks.
Weldable grade Al-Mg alloys in the form of sheets, flats, bars, tubes
Managing steel, NCM steel, PH steel, Stainless steels, Weldable CM steels, and Bearing steels in the form of flats, bars, forgings and tubes.
Titanium alloys of Ti-6AI-4V flats and bars.
Ni-Ti shape memory alloy
Characterization and generation of corrosion, fatigue & crack growth data for LCA spectrum
I have to say in terms of materials the LCA seems to be pretty advanced but it would be nice to see more composites used on the LCA! I hope we can see composite landing gear!
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