quadbikeAgain, apart from Indian press, no reliable source is qouting PAC3 or AEGIS. As you admitted, Kitty Hawk was speculation so lets wait for something more reliable. Dont want egg on our faces again….
Yes, Israelis have produced some great kit, but not everything they make is a wonder weapon, and SPYDER has certainly not seen battle, so lets not start comparing a system that
1) Is not in service anywhere yet
2) Has not been ordered by the IDF itselfto NATO systems in use by several countries.
Please (and I so want to hear this one!), how did you come up with this conclusion!?
Just recheck my previous post I have given links about Patriot from Raytheon site itself.
The Indian press Jibe on AEGIS do not work because.
1. It is a direct quote from Lockheed.
2. They are paying to write in one of India’s leading National Security Magazines trying to sell AEGIS.
3. They were at Def Expo offering it.
😉
As for SPYDER its acknowledged as one of the most capable systems of its kind. Now there are a lot of things that are not battle proven that Israel has developed, like the trophy Armour protection system, does that make it any less effective ?
quadbikeDude, please. Your one of the more sane ones.
If we go by Indian press reports then you guys would be sailing F-35 equipped Kitty Hawk carriers.
AEGIS and PAC3 are not on the table for India.
Also, funny how SPYDER is so good yet only India has ordered it.
All those NATO nations sue must be stupid not being as clever huh?
Or let me guess, you have no evidence to back up your claims again?
While there have been some reports regarding the Kitty Hawk most here knew it was just speculation.
As for PAC 3 being offered to India you can either google or check the last few issues of dti (hardly Indian)
Part of a major presence at DEFEXPO in New Delhi, India, Feb. 15–19, is Raytheon’s Patriot Air and Missile Defense System.
Patriot provides the most advanced ground-based air and missile defense system in the world and is the system of choice for the U.S. and 11 partner nations. Combat-proven in two wars (with more than 1,500 missile firings), Patriot has a successful track record of defeating high-performance aircraft, helicopters, unmanned air vehicles, tactical ballistic missiles and cruise missiles.
Raytheon Free to Discuss Air and Missile Defense AlternativesThe end-use monitoring agreement signed last year by the U.S. government and government of India gives Raytheon the opportunity to further discuss a range of air and missile defense alternatives with India, including Patriot. Integration with existing systems and interoperability at the national level are important issues for India and must be addressed as part of a total solution. Raytheon is a world leader in integrated air and missile defense architectures and can work with India to create a layered-defense approach to address specific, current and evolving threats. Patriot has undergone several technology upgrades. State-of-the-art hardware will significantly improve the performance and reliability of new-production systems while reducing operational costs.
From Raytheon itself
http://www.raytheon.com/newsroom/technology/rtn10_defexpo/news8/index.html
AEGIS has been offer to India for ages ;). So much so that Lockheed made RAdm Catherine Page wrote an article on Force magazine last month about it.
http://www.domain-b.com/defence/general/20090514_lockheed_martin.html
Singapore: US aerospace and defence contractor Lockheed Martin is pushing for the sale of its Aegis missile defence system to India saying it was open to installing Indian-built components in the system should the country opt for it.
“Because of the way the Aegis combat system is constructed, there is the ability to put specific indigenous capabilities in portions of it,” Ric Rushton, director for sea-based missile defence at the firm, told news agencies at the IMDEX Asia 2009 maritime defence show being held at Singapore.
According to Rushton, the Aegis system was built on the principle of “open architecture”, which allowed countries using the system to install indigenous components. He cited the example of Japan and South Korea whose naval destroyers are equipped with the system.
“A similar model could work in India if that’s what they are interested in,” Rushton informed agencies. He also said India was yet to arrive at a decision.
“It’s their timeline. I think they are looking to make a decision sometime this year,” he said.
“I’m very optimistic about it. I think there is a solid operational requirement on the part of the Indian Navy, they need this kind of capability.”
That is not all. there are more advanced weapons systems the U.S are offering to India that Pakistan is not being offered including E2D, P8I, ASTOR, F 18E/F, F 35 to name a few.
Your bias is amazing 🙂
As for SPYDER israelis often operate the best weapon systems which are battle proven and developed and often they are not exported.
quadbikeThe lights are on, but the house was emptied years ago huh?
I was responding to the article which incorrectly claimed that 2 AWACs can provide coverage on 2 fronts. Let me guess, you have a math equation showing me I am wrong?
PS extra 3 have not been signed for. Please check facts before posting.
It will depend on the Availability of the aircraft in question, the Phalcons have bigger range than smaller systems and also has 360 degree coverage.
But you are right the IL 76 platform means its availability won’t be as good as smaller platforms a third would be necessary to provide seamless coverage.
quadbikeHQ 9. I think you are baiting people. Please note HQ 9s are meter short then S 300s, however China learned from S 300 technology, stupid not too.
BTW Akash could be called a copy of SA 6 because they look exactly alike:D
The Missile does have some noticeable external similarities with the SA 6 but the actual performance is similar to the BUK M1.
SPADA is a different class of missile system I think you should compare it to the SPYDER Quick Reaction SAM IAF is inducting. The SPYDER is state of the art and better in its envelope than most NATO systems.
India is already developing MR-SAM with Israel and have been offered the PAC 3 and IN has been offered AEGIS system for ships by the U.S.A
😉
quadbikeIndia to showcase indigenous warship in Doha exhibition
New Delhi, Mar 23 (PTI) Showcasing its ship-building prowess, the Indian Navy is sending its missile frigate INS Betwa to a maritime defence systems exhibition in Doha from March 28 to April 3.
“INS Betwa will represent India at the Doha International Maritime Defence Exhibition and Conference 2010 in Qatar and showcase India’s capability of building warships on its own,” Navy officials said here.
India has indigenised and developed its shipbuilding capabilities and is now making big-size warships such as the 38,000 tonne Indigenous Aircraft Carrier also, they added.
Along with the Navy, the other significant Indian exhibitors at the show would be the BrahMos Aerospace Corporation and the Goa Shipyard Limited.
Pakistan is also participating in a big way in the show with its latest submarines and surface vessels such as the French-origin Agusta 70 B ‘Khalid’ submarine, Zulfiquar F-22P missile frigates and the Jalalat Fast Attack Craft.
quadbikeDynamatics wins order from Boeing
Dynamatic Technologies, a manufacturer of precision engineering products based out of Bangalore, has signed a contract with Boeing for the manufacture of cabinets that will house critical power and mission equipment for the P8I programme manufactured by Boeing.
P8I is a maritime surveillance aircraft from Boeing customised for the Navy for which the Ministry of Defence has placed an order with Boeing.
The contract, signed on March 19, is significant for the firm as it is the first time it has won a direct order from Boeing. “Dynamatic and Boeing are working to get the first article ready for inspection by October, 2010,” according to a filing the company has made with the National Stock Exchange.
Dynamatic Technologies has had a relationship with Airbus, the competitor to Boeing for supplying many a component for the aerospace major. It was set to become a single source supplier of flap-track beams to Airbus for its single aisle A-320 family of aircraft. European aircraft manufacturer Airbus had decided to source its requirements of flap-track beams from Dynamatic by June 2010 as part of its cost reduction initiatives.
According to earlier reports, the P8I is a customised version for the Indian Navy and is based on the Boeing-737 commercial airliner. The navy had in November 2006 expressed an interest in the aircraft as a replacement for its existing fleet of Il-38 aircraft that are nearing the end of their service life.
In 2007, at the Aero India 2007, the P8I was showcased by Boeing when the company had announced that it is a next generation maritime surveillance aircraft and will be able to meet the requirements of the Indian Navy for the next 50 years.
quadbikeMORE THAN JUST A DUMPING GROUND
One of the most visibly high-profile and lucrative arms bazaars today happens to be India. The Big Boys of Europe (Russia included) and the United States of America feel happy to see in India a potential market of military equipment worth $50 billion over the next 10 years, and an expected $100 billion in the next 20 years.
The ‘mother’ of all deals, however, is that for the 126 Multi-Role Combat Aircraft, reportedly worth almost $11 billion. Expectedly, therefore, all top six companies — America’s Boeing, France’s Dassault Aviation SA (Rafale), America’s Lockheed Martin Corporation (F-16), Russia’s MiG-35, Sweden’s Saab JAS-39 Gripen and the EADS’s Eurofighter Typhoon — are competing with one another to clinch the deal.
One can well guess what is there in store for the one ‘victor’ and the five ‘vanquished’ once the government of India chooses the type of aircraft for its air force from amongst the six players vying for the deal. There is every possibility of the closure of those plants that fail to get the Indian order, as conventional military hardware markets all over the world have shrunk dramatically. But India being a compulsive big-ticket buyer, all foreign sellers of fighters are camping in New Delhi to woo the potential mega customer.
Perhaps the smartest seller so far has been America’s Boeing Company. Reportedly, the Boeing is to reinvest $640 million in India as part of its offset obligations. But many questions remain unanswered — will the Boeing’s planned investment upgrade indigenous technology? Or will Boeing remain content with asking Indian entrepreneurs to manufacture and copy a few non-technical and non-sensitive inventories such as the fuselage, doors, windows, galleys and tyres? One is not too sure as yet because if Barack Obama’s recent utterances are to be considered, “outsourcing” is anathema to him. And offset programmes of the government of India might be interpreted by American hardliners as outsourcing.
Boeing, however, was reportedly always “confident of securing export orders and the US Navy had sought international partners to share development of P-8A.” American companies (especially Boeing), consider India to be an important market — “We are here for the long haul,” declared an official of the company.
From India’s perspective, however, some puzzles remain. Serious defects had occurred and recurred in the F/A-18 Super Hornet programme. This spells trouble both for India and the USA. If a high-tech aircraft sold to India is found defective, then India — which has till date never produced the likes of F-4, F-5, F-15, F-16, F-18, F-22 and F-35 — certainly cannot be expected to repair or replace an aircraft that even the Americans today find hard to maintain.
It might be useful for India to emulate the Chinese in this regard — “Give us the latest technology first, then only we will take your hardware.” India must get the best stuff for itself, and should not be used as a dumping ground for obsolete technology.
The Union defence minister, A.K. Antony, constantly harps on the “need of high level of indigenisation in defence sector”. One-way traffic of sale and purchase could be transformed into ‘cooperate and produce’ between equal partners. The existing imbalance has led to inequalities in India’s arms acquisition programme. Choose the best and chase the quality.
quadbikeIndia to get second AWACS on Thursday
New Delhi, Mar 23 (PTI) India will receive another Israeli-made Phalcon Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AWACS) on Thursday, giving it the second ‘eye in the sky’ for enhanced surveillance that would virtually cover the entire nation.
The second AWACS will arrive in Jamnagar in Gujarat and will be deployed in Agra, IAF officials said here today.
With the arrival of the second AWACS, officials said the IAF can keep an eye on both the eastern and western front at the same time.
“After the induction of the third system, we would be able to virtually cover the whole nation at one go,” they added.
The system, primarily used for detection of incoming hostile cruise missiles and aircraft from hundreds of kilometers away, can also direct air defence fighters during combat operations against enemy jets. It also helps detect troop build up across the borders.
quadbikeIAF Vayu Shakti 2010
quadbikewhat makes you think that…I would have thought the EF is the one who cleared Leh.
The issue mentioned was with respect to cold startups in the atmosphere and not with respect to outright performance. The Fulcrums are rugged birds often left alone in the cold in Russian winter, while the western jets are used to shelters and all that. Hence my bet on the Mig 35. 😉
quadbikeMy bet is on the MIG 35 being the one who cleared it.
quadbikeSweden’s Gripens head for AFS Jaisalmer
BANGALORE: Sweden’s Gripen NG, the last of the six fighter aircraft that are being evaluated by the Indian Air Force for the $12 billion medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) deal, left Bangalore on Monday morning for the Air Force Station (AFS) Jaisalmer.
Having gone through a week of performance trials — including a demonstration of air-to-air refuelling and flying manoeuvres — by the IAF’s specifically designated MMRCA team here, two Gripens will now complete the remaining part of their flight tests over Pokhran and Leh before heading for the AFS Jamnagar and then to an air base in Sweden.
While one of the Gripens will undertake hot weather trials in and around the AFS Jaisalmer and later take off to perform a dummy run and bomb drop at the Pokhran test range, the other fighter, as part of the cold weather trials, will land in Leh, switch off, refuel and then take off again.
Ministry of Defence officials familiar with the MMRCA trials told The Hindu that while they expect no hiccups during the weapons drop over Pokhran, the Leh exercise proved challenging to the other contenders vying for the MMRCA deal.
The officials confided that four of the five aircraft in the MMRCA competition faced problems starting up in the rarefied atmosphere of Leh, and the IAF had to ask the manufacturers to undertake modifications in the aircraft’s fuel systems. The Gripen’s evaluation is part of the MMRCA flight trials, which started in August last, when the F/A-18 Hornets arrived here. These were followed by another American fighter, the F-16IN Super Viper. In September, the French Rafale flew over Bangalore. It was followed by Russia’s MiG-35 and the European Aeronautic Defence and Space consortium’s Eurofighter Typhoon flew in March.
Once the flight trials are completed, the MMRCA evaluation team headed by the Principal Director, Air Staff Requirements, Air Commodore R.K. Dhir will write the technical report, narrowing down the competition to three or four contenders. Thereafter, the commercial bids will be opened, with the lowest bidder — as per India’s defence procurement procedures — winning the contract.
quadbikeIt is amazing. I just posted a reply to someoen asking if PAF had any SAMs and now (as I predicted) it has turned into a Akash is better then SPADA debate.
All Indian posters claiming it is short ranged are missing the point.
Its a medium range SAM that can shoot down some cruise missiles.
If people can read all the posts I never claimed SPADA was long range.
Abhimanyu, please qoute me where I said SPADA was “long range”
Can mods note please, posters are not just misquoting me, but actually outting words in my mouth.
This is UNBELIEVABLE! 😡
I think there is some mistake Rimmer. The debate about SPADA as far as ia m concerned was very good and informative.
I apologize if you feel offended.
I am more interested in a SPADA vs SPYDER comparison.
quadbikeSPYDER SAM
Can track up to 500 targets compared to the SPADAS 100, has 360 degree coverage.
quadbikeAtfer reading that SPADA seams to be a Medium SAM system but its range and performance (atleast on paper) is still infeiror to AKASH.
I wonder why PAF went for the SPADA where it could have gotten longer range S 300 copies from China.
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