Thats why I called Shiv Aroor’s view as unrealistic. IN will go for maximum 4 carriers (3 projected), not 6. So the second ship will be a large carrier not the fourth one. As there were reports that the CSL already started preliminary design of a large carrier. There is no room for another identical IAC-2/3.

My view is this.

IAC 1 and IAC 2 will be of the same class. India will have 3 carriers then. The IAC 3 will be a much larger vessel and it will replace the Vikramaditya. India ideally needs five carriers to have 2 or 3 available all the time, and the budget constraints of today may not apply in the future as the economy is growing.

A CVF purchase is a game changer in this regard, however unlikely it is. 😉

1. According to the plan right now, the France will still have at least near 300 fighters (180 plus Rafales and 100 plus Mirage 2000 series) before 2020.

2. The cut of Eurofighter’s orders in European countries may not be a good news for F-35, since the orders are cut not because the customers want to buy more F-35, but because of the severe financial crisis of the European customers, which will also theaten the exportation of F-35.

3. With nations buying their share of the Eurofighter Tranche3 for fear of penalties and exporting them, (like Germany is doing) these fighters may eat into the F 35 market.

Th thread is interesting, but would be more interesting if we could avoid the 29 vs 16 topic, anyway is about the mirage, not the 29…

I think the thread is more complete when you add the fulcrum to the mix. May be the thread starter can change the title as well. These three fighters were exported a lot and have met and still can meet in real combat.

And that would be?

Well let me guess. The Saudis turning hostile after some revolution of some kind. With them having Eagles and Typhoons F 22 may well be needed to limit causalities.

IAF slams HAL, political interference in procurement, bats for private sector

Private sector companies engaged in aerospace manufacture and R&D now have an influential new supporter: The Indian Air Force (IAF). In New Delhi today, the IAF’s vice chief, Air Marshall Pranab Kumar Barbora forcefully called for government policy changes to encourage the private sector in aerospace production, to kickstart a sector that has long been dominated by public sector Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL).

Industry bodies like the Confederation of Indian Industry (CII) have pushed these measures earlier. But the military has so far toed the Ministry of Defence (MoD) line, which automatically grants Defence Public Sector Units (DPSUs) like HAL a predominant position, effectively confining private companies to the ancillary supply of aircraft sub-systems.

But Air Marshall Barbora, a blunt-speaking MiG-21 veteran with a reputation for plain speaking on controversial matters, contrasted the private sector’s success in modernising more than 50 airbases, with HAL’s dismal export performance.

Pointing out that even Pakistan had more defence exports than India, the IAF vice chief said, “I visited HAL a few days back. They are proud that they are making parts for Airbus. But a few days back, China produced the whole Airbus. We are happy producing a door here and something else there.”

Air Marshall Barbora listed out policy changes that the government urgently needed to implement to energise the private sector. These included:

* Government must fund R&D and manufacture by private companies, like it has done for the DPSUs. “They (private sector) have to be part of the new structure. If you don’t give them finance, they won’t come up.”
*

* Assuring firm orders (or Minimum Order Quantity) to private companies, which will allow them to recover the money they spend in developing a product. “If they know they have to produce 1,000 of this, they will be willing to invest.”
*

* Removing government curbs on defence exports by the private sector, to allow them to recover investment costs. “Our own [defence] requirements are miniscule. If you don’t allow private companies to export, he will say, ‘you look after yourself, I’ll look after myself.’”
*

* Addressing “the CVC syndrome”, in which “anyone can file an FIR and everything comes on hold”. The IAF deputy declared that procurement processes must go on without disruptions by motivated allegations of corruption.
*

* Increase the Foreign Direct Investment limit, which is currently 26 per cent. “We have taken steps, but they are not bold enough. We have to be bolder, to invite more investment.”

The IAF deputy also slammed political parties for criticising and scanning defence contracts signed by the previous government, each time power changed hands. Air Marshall Barbora said, “The government becomes the opposition and the opposition becomes the government and blocks everything. That impinges very badly on defence.”

Pointing out that dependence on defence imports remained an Indian vulnerability, the IAF deputy slammed the US for placing sanctions on India after the Pokhran nuclear tests. Holding France up as a model to follow, Air Marshall Barbora said, “France said that, by so and so year, we will go fully indigenous. And they did that. [After that] France blasted all the nuclear devices that they wanted in the Pacific Ocean and nobody could do anything, because they had indigenised [defence production].”

According to a CII-Ernst and Young report, India has over 6,000 SMEs supplying DPSUs, Ordnance Factories, DRDO and the armed forces with 20–25 per cent of their total requirement of components and sub-assemblies. In addition, there are almost a hundred large private companies involved in defence manufacture.

These recommendations were made at a seminar on “Energising Indian Aerospace Industry” in New Delhi.

IAF Recommendations:

* Fund R&D and manufacture by private sector
* Assured orders to recover investments
* Remove curbs on defence exports
* Minimise disruption of procurement
* Increase FDI limits from 26%

even during the interview itself he had made it quite clear that it was his personal view. the brainless media can’t understand unless it is written on a piece of cardboard and poked into their eyes for five minutes at a stretch.

Still its natural that people will have reservations about some one with such a view being the ACM. If the government is willing to for example bear the costs of these female Aviators absence during pregnancy, why should the IAF bother ?

Don’t we have reserve pilots to take over if some one is on leave or injured etc ?

from the Times of India..finally an Armed forces general has the balls to speak it out in the open..I really hope that Air Marshal P.K. Barbora is the next in line to become ACM after ACM Pradeep Naik’s term is over.

I doubt it given his comments about women in IAF service and the media furore it caused. He was forced to apologize and call the views his own/personal.

The sad thing about US Arms is this, that in the case of the UK or France if the administration decides on something it is done, if Sarko wants to give full ToT on the Rafale it is done. In the case of USA even if Obama wants to give Brazil ToT it has to be ok with hundreds of congressmen with self-righteous views.