With gaps in the military capabilities of India and China growing, Defence Minister AK Antony on Monday said the country should “build” asymmetric warfare capabilities to counter threats from larger armed forces.

The gap will widen in the near future will come down in the near distant future and will probably be bridged in the distant future. 🙂 If the financial guys are right of course. 🙂

bofors and denel isnt the only “independent” defence companys. Dassault and Saab, MDBA, Deihl…. and the list goes on…

I know but if you know the Impact of these arms scandals on Indian politics you will understand the sentiments behind preferring govt to govt deals. It is politically damaging for the ruling party and sets back the procurement process by years. So it is natural they may take the politically safe route (which may not be the safest in terms of long term strategy)

Japan toes the US line closely in these matters.
India has tried in the past to raise cooperation with Japan but the reaction was tepid.

In my view, India is better off working with “independent” non politically contentious nations with well developed arms industries, like Sweden, South Africa, Poland & a few others. Sweden could be a good partner for the MCA, whereas South Africa is good for artillery & air to air missiles.

Denel is already blacklisted so is Bofors. If this article is true the politicans who want to prevent Bribery allegations would probably do govt to govt business with U.S for most of the bigger deals in future.

No thanks, you’re blacklisted!

[QUOTE]Over this last decade, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has “blacklisted” so many foreign arms corporations that the military’s modernisation plan has virtually stalled. The MoD “blacklist” is not a formal document; an arms vendor is mostly embargoed unofficially, when senior bureaucrats agree that it is playing dirty.

The hit list reads like a Who’s Who of global weapons suppliers, including corporations with good records of delivering arms to India. Starting with Bofors in the late 1980s, the list grew to include Denel of South Africa; Israel Military Industries (IMI); Singapore Technologies Kinetic (STK); and now Thales of France. Earlier this year the world’s biggest defence contractor, Lockheed Martin, was on the blacklist. Now another global giant, BAE Systems, seems headed there after problems with setting up an assembly line in HAL Bangalore for the Hawk jet trainer.

It is hardly news that arms sales and corruption walk together. Arms vendors routinely bribe political leaders, bureaucrats and senior military officers, not just in India but worldwide. BAE Systems allegedly bribed Saudi Arabian royals with hundreds of millions of dollars in the infamous Al Yamamah contracts. Thales, credibly accused of bribing South African presidential hopeful, Jacob Zuma, is also being sued by Taiwan to recover US $590 million allegedly paid in kickbacks to win a deal for six warships. Most arms companies maintain multi-million dollar slush funds to ease the way for their giant deals.

But the Indian MoD is wholly wrong in behaving as if the problem is just one of predatory arms corporations. All those bribes are being paid to somebody; but no Indian MoD official is in jail for having accepted a bribe. Instead South Block’s vendor blacklists grow longer and longer.

These blacklists are now choking defence procurement. The Indian Army’s artillery firepower is grossly inadequate today because — starting from the original Bofors scandal — every time an artillery gun looks like it may be selected by the army, a cloud comes over its vendors. In recent years, the Bofors 155mm towed howitzer has been the standout candidate in repeated Indian trials. But the cloud over Bofors has never really lifted, even though it is now owned by the UK-headquartered BAE Systems.

In the procurement of tracked guns South African company, Denel, was to fit a gun turret on the Arjun tank chassis. That was scuttled in 2005 when Denel was unofficially blacklisted over bribery allegations, never proved, in another sale. That also blocked a crucial ammunition factory, being built in George Fernandes’ constituency, Nalanda, for which Denel was providing technology. In 2007, Israel Military Industries replaced Denel as technology partner; this June, after former Ordnance Factories Board (OFB) chairman, Sudipta Ghosh was arrested, IMI was prohibited as well. The Nalanda factory languishes.

Also ostracised after Ghosh’s arrest was Singapore Technologies Kinetic, whose Pegasus ultralight howitzer was the lone gun being evaluated for the army’s mountain divisions. Despite strong protests from the army (Business Standard, 18th July 09) that crucial procurement remains blocked. Two new mountain divisions for the Sino-Indian border are being starved of artillery.

“Today, anyone who wants to block an important Indian arms purchase has only to level an allegation against the vendor”, complains an Indian army officer furiously. “Anonymous letters, motivated charges, press reports, whatever… just kick-start an investigation and the MoD will kill the procurement. This is now routine business practice for rival arms dealers and, sooner or later, Pakistan and China will realise how easy it is to stop vital purchases from going through.”

Former OFB Chairman, Sudipta Ghosh, was granted bail in July after the CBI failed to file a charge sheet against him. But the seven arms companies (4 foreign and 3 Indian), which were blacklisted after his arrest, remain proscribed.

This situation, ironically, is rooted in Defence Minister AK Antony’s crusade against corruption. But his onslaught has entirely bypassed wrongdoing within his own ministry. And, increasingly, US companies are being let off the hook in situations where lesser mortals might have paid a heavier price. Lockheed Martin, discovered with classified information, was ordered to dispense with the services of its India CEO, Ambassador Douglas Hartwick (Business Standard, 13th July 09). But it remains in contention for the IAF’s lucrative medium fighter contract.

Similarly, even after the US Department of Justice revealed that the subsidiaries of two US companies, York Navy Systems and Textron, paid bribes to secure defence contracts in India, these companies face no blacklists or restrictions.

In a procurement environment characterised by paranoia, blacklists, and dwindling vendor options, India will inevitably drift towards sourcing most of its defence sales from the US, using the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route. In this, New Delhi will provide Washington with its requirements; the Pentagon will nominate a vendor and negotiate a price; India will pay and and receive the equipment. This will be non-controversial in terms of corruption and kickbacks, but renew dependency on Washington in the crucial military arena./QUOTE]

MIG 29 K anyone ?

You know Mr. Sweetman for all his knowledge and goodness is still a journalist, and sensational news sells more than the bits like JSF doing well etc etc. I kinda find him as a victim of our times torn between the commercial and intellectual sides of journalism.

Oh, my hilarious customer was Saudi Arabia. Think of the amusement that sale would cause!

The guys at Lockheed will be jumping up and down with excitement as this would mean more F 35s for the middle east yay!.

As for Iran and China, again it will all depend on Sino-U.S and U.S-Iranian relations. If Americans continue to deny weapons to Taiwan for example China may not want to change all that by supplying Iran.

At some point in the future, Russia, China, India, Iran, Libya, Syria, Egypt, Vietnam, Indonesia, Venezuela, Pakistan, Algeria…all of them could conceivably go after at least a small number (1-2 units worth) of one or the other, although for some of them (Libya, Syria, and Vietnam) you’re probably looking at about 15 years or so down the road. Outside of the makers the largest customers will likely be India and Iran. Iran is one that nobody talks about, but bear in mind that they haven’t really done anything with their fighter fleet recently, other than some work to keep things operating, such as the F-14, and asinine rehashing of the F-5. It would not be outside the realm of possibility to think that their may have been some Iranian money behind the PAK-FA. Not a lot, but enough to keep them interested while they stay the course with their current fleet.

Lets split that into two

PAK FA – Russia India Venez, Algeria, Indonesia, Vietnam, Lybia, Syria. Egypt, (Iran ? I do not think as long as they have serious issues with U.S, esp with the new reset button and all Russia and America don’t want to **** each other off, but this could change of course).

There is a chance that Egypt may choose the F 35 over the PAK FA. India may in future have both types in service. As for Lybia if they are getting the Rafale would they be going for either of these ? :confused:

J/XX – China, Pakistan (the rest of China’s customers are not being given or cannot really afford its current front line fighters. may be when the J-xx is made in big numbers we may see J 10/ in bangladeshi/srilankan service etc.)

And hey, want another hilarious potential JXX or PAKFA customer? They’ve got the money, and boy, would it drive their neighbors up the wall. See if yo ucan guess who it might be

Greece ?