The life cycle costs of any aircraft are very difficult to work out, as Witcha clearly pointed out. The best we, on here, can do is come up with an idea based on speculation & various figures released.

And just to speculate; recent reports released suggested operational availability for the Typhoon (for the RAF and Italian Air Force at least and) has varied from at least 97% to 100% during various exercises and actual combat. Figures for the Rafale are difficult to come across (unless someone has any idea?), but with several emergency landings in Malta during the Lybian Campaign, and one aircraft not flight worthy and another one that had to cut short it’s flight display during Aero India 11, one might have to question it’s availability and serviceability. However, with limited information available to us it’s probably a moot point, but speculation does no harm.

Wrt the Indian Mirage and commonality with the Rafale, of course it might be an advantage for the latter in this competition but I really don’t think it’s that significant as many people make it out to be, after all, the Rafale is not a Mirage. Just because India operate the Hawk, it doesn’t give the Typhoon a better chance of winning.

If commonality was such a big requirement for the Indian armed forces we would probably be discussing the Mig-35 & F/A-18, too.

Why did Eurofighter present ideas for a naval Typhoon then? Who is the potential customer?

I would say it was more of an industrial benefit or India, however I believe it could work, the current proposals for a Naval Typhoon are a lot more compelling than previous ones proposed by BAE Systems. As I understand, there’ll have to be at least 50 Naval Typhoons on order for it all to work out. The only potential customers for this would be India and the UK if the F-35 goes t*ts up wrt cost. But, with the IN purchasing Mig-29Ks at the moment and possibility a Naval FGFA in the future, both aircraft manufacturers promoting naval capabilities in the MMRCA is rather a moot point.

Relying on the amraam not a big deal ? You must be kiding.
On the contrary, the fact that the primary mission of typhoon relies on a weapon which technology and production is held by the USA alone is a very big deal.

It aint a big deal. How long left does AMRAAM have left on the Typhoon? 4, 5 or 6 years at the very latest. For some reason I reckon there isn’t going to be any Typhoons lauching AMRAAMs in anger before Meteor comes online, well before Rafale gets it anyway.

And what would the US do if the Typhoon users got into a situation where they had to deploy AMRAAM? Not send them a Christmas card? Tell them they “can’t do that” for whatever reason? Please…

I really don’t know why you think its such a bad thing, no big deal. Stupid. Another attempt to have a pop at the Evil Typhoon? yeah, I think so…

It’s a bit of a moot point you’re trying to argue with here.

Remove the amraam from the typhoon inventory and you end up with an almost useless dogfighter.

No, if you end up in a “dogfight” the AMRAAM becomes almost useless. Hence ASRAAM & IRS-T. 😉

Hopefully, the meteor is being developed.

It is, haven’t you heard? Trials with Typhoon + Meteor are well under way.

@ EELightning, where does Litening 3 go on your first pic? Minus 1 paveway, I presume.

That pic was one of very many released showing the Typhoon flying with various Paveway II & drop tank configurations. The Lightning pod would go on the centre pylon. I really like that picture. When RAF Typhoons were sent to the US for Green Flag a few years ago, those particular configurations were flown with, albeit minus A/A missiles. The third from top is actually from Green Flag & the fourth is taken from the Lybian campaign where later on they operated with just two A/A missiles, an ASRAAM & AMRAAM. The second pic is from very early on in the campaign where they just operated with two Paveway IIs, minus Lightning pod (relying on Tornado GR4’s) and six A/A missiles. Due to pilot experience, no fault to the aircraft itself. Very, very soon afterwards, I believe well within a week, they were operating with a full load of A/G and A/A weapons, & as I mentioned above A/A missiles reduced to two due to lack of threat.

Hope this helps.

:rolleyes: Pity for EF that Mr Jamie Hunter has nothing to say in IAF, because nearly all chiefs that were in service during MRCA or MMRCA stated, that they want a multi role aircraft:

Pity for yourself you don’t keep up. Despite the meaning of ‘MMRCA’, the ‘Basic’ requirement still calls for an air defence fighter. Like it or not. It’s whats been reported by many professional defence analysts (emphasize on professional) for some time. Jamie Hunter wasn’t the only one to report this.

As you can see the EF currently and with the cleared capabilities of T3A, offers only very little of what IAF really wants.

Currently, the variant in service now does not meet the requirements of the IAF. But the Tranche 2 ‘Is Not’ on offer to India, it happens to be the Tranche 3. Speaking of which, the latter will meet the IAF’s requirements, technically and be on time. Hence why the Typhoon got shortlisted in the first place. The Gripen didn’t make it through because Saab failed to convince the Indians on the time frame of when it’d be ready in time.

I don’t suppose you know how capable Typhoon Tranche 3 will be?

Not exactly, Rafale is good enough for India right now and in time according MMRCA requirements, while EF offers only the future potential to be good enough for India, if India pays for the upgrades and with delays. But as I said, if the industrial package of EF is that good, MoD/GoI will compromise on the technical shortcomings.

Like I say (and others would too). The “future” Typhoon already meets the IAF requirements and are convinced that it’ll be on time. Theres no reasons why it would run into any “delays”, as you seem to think. And I’d like to point out; the Tranche 3 supports a wide range of weapons, communication, defence etc systems so on and so forth, & as I said Tranche 3 (with all these systems and what it currently has) is on offer…We’re more than likely to see the likes of Storm Shadow, Paveway IV, Brimstone, Meteor and quite possibly Captor-E too integrated onto Typhoon before India take delivery of their initial, off shelf batch. So what upgrades do you think India would have to “pay” for?

And we see pictures of Rafale in other air force colour schemes, reading and hearing claims that the “deal is in it’s final stages of being signed” endlessly from the French, we hear it’s this wonderful flying machine, it’s the Jack of all trades bar none…Problem is, despite this, nobody buys it. :diablo:

Depends what kind of configuration & variety you want. 😉

Sure but I am not sure if India is interested in paying out of its own pocket for the integration of weapons of which are already available for the Rafale.

Not really. India having to pay out their own pocket to integrate weapons on the Typhoon, I mean. The systems on Tranche 3 Typhoons support the weapons planned for integration. The RAF are going through the process of getting a variety of A/G weapons integrated in the next 3-4 years. So as all India has to do is make a deal with MBDA for ‘x’ number of weapons. Which seems to what they’re doing now.

Okay…

Take 1 Rafale and 1 Typhoon
Add 2 storm shadows
Add as much external fuel as you can
Compute range
Decide which fighter you want

Thank you,

Nic

So the Rafale has better range. So what? I can play that game too where I could place the Typhoon at an advantage using other types of weapons, of which we would just be going around in circles anyway.

Btw, about the Storm Shadow thingy. How many A/A missiles would you be able to carry again? See the trade-offs with both fighters now? 😉

If the overall capability has an importance, the SH Block II+ version should win hand down and by a long long distance with the worlds most advanced AESA, leaps and bounds ahead of anything on the market ,AMRAAM’s, JHCMS and AIM9X.

Theres quite a considerable flaw in what you’re stating there…

The reduction of the unit costs for the Indian offer shows how desperate the EF partners are, so we can expect a good industrial package as well, even if the fighter is not a good choice for India.

If I were you, I wouldn’t even think that was true for a moment. If you do, well then you’d be greatly mistaken. Silly, silly, silly. *Tut-tut!*

Obviously, both aircraft are good enough for India. Hence why they were shortlisted in the first place.

Whats wrong with this picture?…

Hehe… :diablo:

Blast. Image wont work. But I’ll leave it up to ones imagination. 😀