Tmor, you should have an avatar with a Dassault rep manning a guillotine with the Rafale’s head in it.

I feel quite sorry for the French politicians (not something I would say about any politician), meaning, their effort to get the likes of the UAE, Morroco, Brazil etc to purchase the Rafale. They’ve obviously done their part to promote the aircraft…Now, we’ll hand you over to Dassault. Hmmm…

(Kinda reminds me of the hassle we at work with a shipment of Fender (US) guitars a few months ago…Not pleasent, bunch of fu…wits…)

Nevermind being a fly on the wall in the Dassault & Eurofighter GmbH meetings…I wouldn’t mind being a one in the meeting rom when the French politicians call for a meeting with Dassault of why they keep pi$$ing away potential sales.

Its slowly starting to make sense why, for example, Dassault have took so long to get the Indian Mirage upgrade deal done. I’m getting the impression they’re just saying; ‘This is our product, this is it’s price, if you want it, pay the price and buy it, no exceptions!’

I dare not think (well I do in all honesty 😀 ) how they’re getting along in the Indian competition…

For fu……sake! Talk about blowing things out of proportion. :rolleyes:

These so-called “leaks” came by the way of Jon Lake via Eurofighter Starsteak. (The Anti-Christ to the Rafale as some supporters believe.) So, I was just mentioning some of what he stated, doesn’t mean they’re true from both him and me. Just speculation…

…and to most that are quoting my words fail to see that what they are are mere questions, not criticisms. It helps to pay attention.

Regarding how many French types were taking part in the campaign along side the Rafale; again, questions, not criticisms. In question was why the Rafale hadn’t been 100% positive as previously thought (again not a criticism) and why it seems (reportedly – not my claims) to have “relied” upon by other French aircraft types when we’ve been spoon fed that the Rafale ‘is all that.’ (This is whats being leaked out of the Dubai AirShow). I clearly asked was it due to the lack of aircraft numbers wrt Rafale or something else? Just a mere harmless question(s). Simple. I wasn’t questioning “why” the other French aircraft were needed because the Rafale can do all their jobs anyway, its, well…C’mon you’ve got brain cells, give them a chance. And I certainly do not question the maturity of the Rafale!

I thought I made my points quite clear in the first place. If some still don’t get it, well that’s your problem. Figure them out.

TMor: Funny, I often think the same about some of you lot. :rolleyes:

Maybe because these other types can do the job too (or part of it) ? Would you need a Rafale or whatever to simply carry GBUs when an obsolete Mirage F1 can do it ? That’s more or less what the Typhoons did while patrolling with Tornados, isn’t it ? (pun intended :D)

Read my post again. You kinda missed a great big chunk of it. :rolleyes:

BTW you still don’t get (nor want to understand) what “omnirole” means, hence your tendency to mix it up with swing-role.

So then go make a thread about it & we can all discuss it.

EELighting, You sound just like Jon Lake :rolleyes:

Ah yes. I forgot, the merest word that could sound negative towards the Rafale is like asking the Pope if he has Iron Maiden’s The Number of the Beast on his ipod… :rolleyes:

For the last 3 years, they have been negociating technical issues (and you know how sharp the UAE are on technical matters). Since mid 2011, the technical specs are frozen : everything has been agreed, including new systems and integration of new weapon loads.

So what is happening now are price negociations. They ask for various quotations from various jet manufacturers in order to confront those offers with the Rafale one. Doing so they can assess if the price asked for the Rafale is realistic and discuss on it.

As everyone and their mutt knows. As far as I’m aware & what I’ve learned, France hoped that during this particular air show, they were expecting the UAE to finally announce and confirm the selection of the Rafale. Apparantly this was widely predicted in September this year. Aswell, apparantly, the UAE still require a more advanced aircraft than that of in French service and are maybe unwilling to fund the required modernization. And apparantly, when asked about the potential sale to the UAE or wether they’re still talking, the French are saying “no comment” even to questions as to whether they’re still in contention. This is whats been leaked from the Dubai Airshow recently.

Wrt the price. If (if true) the UAE are asking other aircraft makers RFPs just to make sure Dassault’s is “realistic”, then what does that tell you? Don’t they trust Dassault or do the UAE think it ain’t worth the price? That doesn’t sound that attractive and if Dassault think that this is the case then they may be underestimating the UAE and other manufacturers RFPs. Not wise.

Eurofighter is the more noisy about it because they want to impress India (hey, look, the UAE want the typhoon !), but the UAE also asked to Saab … and even Sukhoi (according to some source) !
If I were you I wouldn’t dismiss the Rafale UAE deal so easily.

Eurofighter GmbH, and the UK too for that matter, have just merely confirmed they’re in talks with the UAE about the potential sale of 60 aircraft and 90 pilots – albeit via professional defence analysts. If Eurofighter GmbH wanted impress India they would say; ‘Hey look, Saudi Arabia and Austria have bought our aircraft, and its likely that the Saudis will purchase another 72 of the type!’ Which can’t be said for the Rafale thats for sure.

If I were a rep from Dassault, I wouldn’t feel that optimistic…At all. I’d be worried why I’m hearing the wrong noises coming from the UAE.

I find that Magazine’s claims stupid. Yes French used four types and the British used two types. But the IIRC its the Tornado which did most of the missions for the Brits & Rafale for the French, and in terms of mission hours, total ordinance dropped I think the Rafale outdid the Typhoon.

I think you’ve missed the point by quite a bit there. Yes, those claims might sound rather suspect, but I think the point taken into account is being looked at the wrong way. Eurofighter GmbH aren’t claiming the Typhoon flew more sorties, dropped for weapons, notched up more hours etc or even claiming the Typhoon out-did the Rafale and to be a little fair to Eurofighter GmbH, most of these so-called “claims” seem to be questions than the previous, (question marks a bit of a give-away.)

The Tornado GR4 was there because it can operate with Storm Shadow, Brimstone, the Paveway II, III and IV series & the Raptor Recce pod, the Typhoon just with Paveway II, so obviously the Tornado GR4 was needed in the RAF’s case. Neverless the Typhoon and it’s systems provided SA not only for itself, but for it’s fellow Tornado, too. The Typhoon’s DASS was used to cue other sensors for itself and for the Tornado (or both) and on at least one occasion, the Typhoon’s electronic warfare system/radar warning receiver information was used to strike certain targets on the ground. So the Typhoon & Tornado complimented each other more than previously thought.

I think what they’re just saying is (with a bit of marketing hype thrown in), if the Rafale is so swing-role, “omni-role” whatever you want to call it, why did they need two different types of Mirages and Super Entendards to perform some of it’s missions when the Rafale is supposed to be capable of doing so anyway? Was it the lack of Rafale numbers or something else? Why were the other types needed?

I reckon thats what they’re asking.

So, I think some are taking this too literally & jumping to conclusions too soon.

By reading into it and recieving some insight from elsewhere, I suspect the Rafale’s role isn’t as positive as many claimed it to be. However, thats not to say it didn’t perform brilliantly, which it did as did others such as the F/A-18, Tornado GR4, Typhoon etc.

I wonder what aircraft Pakistan AF and PLAAF fans would like to win :diablo:

Well, the Pakistan Air Force made a poor attempt to claim & shoot down the RAF’s Typhoon (quite literally) during a certain exercise. Of which the RAF weren’t even a part of, so. Nervious tensions from the Pakistan Air Force to try & discourage India? Yeah, probably so.

Again the bribes story. I wonder who bribed the UAE to not sign a Rafale contract yet. And even the M2k upgrade story, can be seen as a disadvantage to Dassault as well, as this contract did also not come easily.

What are you suggesting? Are you implying EADS or BAEvil Systems had something to do with bribes wrt the UAE?

@ EELightning : Funny as ever, since we are speculating, I wonder why those lucky nations who bought the Typhoon are trying to get rid of it, or demonstrate no urge to buy more.

Same reason why the likes of the UK etc are cutting orders for the F-35, axed the Harrier, closing bases, cutting Gurkha numbers and other British Army regiments, axed Nimrod, Sentinel’s head is on the chopping board, Royal Navy & RAF personell jobs long gone with more talks of cuts. Italian economy is in a mess, Spain aren’t much better off, Germany seem to be better off but still concerns over defence – in all branches of their airmed forces…

Why aren’t the Saudis buying more instead of begging for more F15s which are supposed to be of a older generation. After comparing the two, they should have said woaw…

Yeah, showing interest in 48 more Typhoons and upgrading their fleet to Tranche 3 standard says it ain’t all that… :rolleyes:

You’ve got to look into it a bit more.