EELightningVery soon after the Libyan campaign started, BAE Systems introduced a system for the RAF’s Typhoon fleet which pre-programmes known threats (from the air and ground from a particular area they’re due to operate in) into the Typhoon’s sub-systems & weapons systems. Sort of like a memory card for a computer games console so to speak. From what I can remember & from what I understand, it was/is quite a straight forward system to get to know.
IIRC “it” doesn’t actually have a name, from what I can gather it’s just a simple “add-on”, if you like. Maybe this was the “weapons mod” they speak of?
EELightningHmmm Typhoon’s closest enemies seems to be it’s countries governments. The Rafale’s seems to be it’s own makers and it’s government.
As an avid Typhoon fan I feel quite optimistic…
the engine upgrade has been dropped but there are other improvements to the system which are kept secret.
Why was the engine upgrade dropped? Personally I’m not sure if that was a wise move.
EELightninghttp://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/dubai-eurofighter-comes-clean-with-typhoon-display-364719/
Clean configuration using an RAF aircraft….
What could the thinking behind the change be?
For the display? Possibly due to the heat & humidity. I was in Dubai a short while ago & the weather was blistering, even for this time of year when usually it’s slightly cooler albeit still hot, especially in the afternoons. The RAF are probably going for a clean configuration to get the most performance out of the Typhoon. However, they are going to be there for a few days and performing every day, so theres a high possibility we’ll see a fully loaded Typhoon display.
The RAF aircraft taking to the air in Dubai this week arrived in the region recently to participate in a major exercise with the UAE and other allied air forces staged from Al Dhafra in Abu Dhabi.
I wonder if the PAF are taking part and if so – will they bring their JF-17s?
A fellow forum member (other) whom of which seems to be follow Typhoon news and has a significant amount of knowledge of the aircraft, seems to have some “leaked” news from Dubai wrt the aircraft itself.
– BAE has internally announced the sale of 12 Tranche 2 Typhoons to Oman. Official announcement to happen later in the year or early 2012.
– Saudi Arabia is looking into an additional purchace of 48 Typhoons, as well as integrating the Damocles pod on their fleet of Typhoons. They already operate the pod on their Tornado fleet.
– RAF Typhoons got new radio and weapons mods for the Libya commitment.
– Typhoon serviceability rate was 99% during the Lybian campaign.
Credit to Herman the II from Military Photos.
EELightningHmmm…A few weeks ago Eurofighter GmbH predicted Dassault would lose in the UAE (and India). Of course one could just take that as marketing by them, but one is wondering if that was just the beginning of the end, in this case for Dassault?
For over three years the UAE has been discussing with Dassault/France about the purchase of the Rafale. Very little has been heard from the UAE side, the major part is the UAE’s demand for a better radar and more powerful engines, and all we got from the French side is words like; “We’re in the final stages of signing a deal with the UAE”, wrt Rafale, this is pretty much all we’ve been hearing for the past three years but at has come down to nothing in the end.
The Rafale has, pretty much I think it’s safe today, been the only “true” contender to supply the UAE with fighters and it has seemed at the beginning that the UAE was only interested in that particular fighter, hence why I think Eurofighter GmbH have kept their distance with interfering with the deal, despite still promoting & proposing the Typhoon to the UAE but with no pressure – they’ve just kept a steady presence. That’s my impression of Eurofighter GmbH anyway.
Personally, I think Dassault should have had this deal signed long before now as they really should have done in other potential buyers, Kuwait, Morroco etc where there was even no competition. Still, they came away with nothing on the exported list. This could be interpreted in a number of ways; either the Rafale is not what it’s made about to be as an aircraft, or the Dassault are very poor at selling aircraft to a real potential buyer. Going by what a Dassault spokes person said about India; “Buy the Rafale, then we’ll negotiate”… An aircraft deserves not to be chosen as the winner with stupid words like that! And with words like that I believe it’s the latter.
There could also be a number of reasons from the UAE side. Maybe the UAE realised & thought; “Hang on? The price difference between the Rafale and Typhoon is only less than 5% (apparantly). By time we take delivery, the Typhoon will have the Captor-E (which no matter what, will always be bigger & more powerful than whatever will be fitted into the Rafale), more powerful engines as it already has anyway, we’re being offered the TVNs for the Typhoon, it will also have HMSS amonst other things…Why are we just looking at the Rafale? So lets get in touch with Eurofighter GmbH.”
EELightningDUBAI: UAE issues shock Eurofighter Typhoon request!
France’s long-running campaign to sell up to 60 Dassault Rafales to the United Arab Emirates faces a shock last-minute challenge, with the Eurofighter consortium having been asked to submit a proposal based on its Typhoon combat aircraft.
News of the development broke on the eve of the Dubai air show, where both types are scheduled to take part in the daily flying display.
Sources have confirmed that the UK provided a formal briefing about the Typhoon to UAE officials on 17 October, after being asked to explore how it might meet future fast jet requirements.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/dubai-uae-issues-shock-eurofighter-typhoon-request-364701/
Oooh, ouch! :diablo:
EELightningFull ToT or not, this is still a licence-built contract. So they will not be able to do any modifications without receiving green light first.
According to my notes taken from my “Useless Information” folder; Benhard Gewert stated that, I quote: “India is free to use the Eurofighter Typhoon as it sees fit. It can even develop India-specific features.”
EELightningI’m wondering if India will have free hands at upgrading and rebuild the chosen fighter as they see fit ?
Yes, if they chose the Typhoon at least anyway. Not too sure about the other points though.
To be honest. If the life cycle costs are anything like the aircraft costs, i.e. very little between them, then I don’t think the L1 will be as important as previously thought. Personally I reckon strategic and industrial benefits & offsets will play a bigger deciding factor I suspect. In my honest opinion.
EELightningForgive the dumb question but when will the decision announced as to which plane has won?
Not a dumb question at all. I’m sure many, including myself, wonder the same thing.
It could be in the next couple of weeks, maybe sooner. I would imagine in mid December myself but may be wrong. The final signature is said to be signed in front of the ‘X’ in around March next year. So, a lot of tention.
EELightningImagine Pakistanis coming out saying they beat typhoons.
Just like they did when they “owned” RAF Typhoons with their F-16s? Pity for themselves they’re so full of sh*t.
EELightningMulti-role too expensive for strike? I don’t think so IMO.
One could look at it this way. Design and build a dedicated A/G aircraft to counter the current or potential threat(s) on the ground. It turns out to be a successful platform. Weldone, pat on the back.
A new threat(s) appears only this time from the air. The successful A/G aircraft you designed is incapable of dealing with this new threat. Solution, convert the A/G aircraft to undertake A/A missions knowing there could be a high possiblity it won’t meet all threats such as dedicated air superiorty fighters. Not good. Ala Tornado. We’ve got a dilema.
Solution, design and build another aircraft, this time capable of dealing with A/A threats as well as A/G threats. Ala Typhoon.
Well what do you know, we now have two aircraft.
Despite the the current situations in Afghanistan & what happened in Libya. Multi- role or Swing-role (Or change the name from the latter to “Omnirole” to make it just sound more special if you’re French…) with solid A/A capabilities is the way to go.
Dedicated aircraft asigned to one particular role are a thing of the past IMO. I’m not talking about huge heavy weight bombers such the likes of the B1-B etc…Actually, theres probably no reason for those too when I think about it. But thats another story.
EELightningTyphoon & JF-17 in DACT?
According to Air Forces Monthly’s Alan Warnes this will be the case. Apparantly details released next week.
Check the EF Typhoon News Thread from Military photos, page 98, post #1457.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?124670-EF-Typhoon-News/page98
Should be interesting. What are your thoughts?
EELightningJust some more news, this time from Aviation Week. Nothing new but it’s alway interesting to hear Aviation Week’s view.
NEW DELHI — The cost of acquiring the winning aircraft for India’s Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition is no longer a secret — except to the public, for now.
***
Bid details are not yet public. But after the 3-hr. meeting at the Indian air force (IAF) headquarters, a ministry officer in the acquisitions office indicated that certain parameters, including the flyaway cost per aircraft, were not as disparate as might have been expected.
Perhaps indicatng both companies stuck to their guns wrt aircraft costs and also possibly indicating Eurofigher GmbH didn’t “sacrifice” anything to lower the cost of the Typhoon. As some seem to want to believe.
“Both companies now know the unit cost of each other’s aircraft,” the ministry officer said. “That was closely held information so far. But the real calculations, which will include [the] cost of flying these aircraft over their lifetime, plus inputs from technology transfer and offsets, will provide a final picture. We have a formula and process. It will now be applied to both bids.”
***
“If the two final offers from Dassault and Eurofighter are roughly comparable, the government will perhaps want to leverage more strategic benefits from the potential winner,” says an adviser to the Confederation of Indian Industry, which counts among its members several firms that will be offsets partners to either Dassault or EADS Cassidian. “You couldn’t ask for two aircraft that are more comparable, or bigger rivals in the aerospace market today. It’s an opportunity for India to truly gain something here, over and above the 126 airplanes.”
I believe Eurofighter GmbH and most certainly EADS Cassidian especially, will love the sound of that…
EELightningWe’ve been speculating for hell’s t!ts knows how long now, causing arguments, brawls, spitting, biting, kicking each other in the gonads, laughing, insulting, monkey hanging, kicking out the Yanks, taunting etc…so a few more weeks more wouldn’t do any harm…Before it starts all over again. 😉
Wrt what the aircraft are actually made of, in Typhoon’s case: 70% Carbon Fibre Composites, 15% lightweight alloys and titanium, 12% Glass Reinforced Plastics and the remaining percentage – ‘other.’
I would imagine the Rafale is made up of around the same percentage of materials as the Typhoon.
A report from the UK released last year stated the Typhoon cost per flight hour would be around that of around the same as the RAF’s other fast jet(s); approx £35,000, including pilot training, fuel costs etc, things like that.
In an issue of ‘AIR International’, April 2011, Air Vice Marshall Greg Bagwell told ‘AIR International’ that the direct operating cost per flight hour is approximately £4,000 for one Typhoon.
Gives a rough idea of the Typhoon’s costs. Of course, one must take into account the costs would vary through other air forces etc.
EELightningNo, just made it simple.
Anyway.
So, calculations for the life cycle costs of both aircraft have begun which apparantly – “determine the lowest bidder and the ultimate winner of the medium multi-role combat aircraft MMRCA deal.”
What are ones thoughts of these then? Which aircraft is cheapest to run?
Difficult one.
EELightningthat’s wrong. “You can understand how things work without knowing all the details.
If one doesn’t know “All” the details then one doesn’t know how it fully works. In other words, they have an idea how it works – other than that they know sh*t!
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