EE Lightning just fits the British culture. Bold, daring, a sense of flair, and a hint of drama. The F-8 was kind of boring in comparison. But the Lightning sure could have borrowed from the F-8’s developmental path.
Imagine, in 1960, the EE Lightning with an XF8U-3 derived front end (AWG-7 fire control, APQ-50 radar, quad guns), optional y-racks (for Sidewinder-derivative heat seekers), over-wing launch rails for Firestreak, underwing space for two pylons on each side, and a nice fuselage stretch with sturdy stub-mounts for more heavy weapons (2000-pound class) or fuel. Launch Sparrows from the stubs or pylons. Later move to a two-seat model, pointed nose and side-mounted forward-tip (F-105 style) Ferri intakes, the Sky Flash SARH missiles, a Red Top heatseeker over each wing, Spey engines, and the integration for their arsenal of air-to-ground missiles. Would have definitely kept up with the bold styling of previous British fighters!
If they used a little foresight by following the Crusader developments they could have been ready years before they even ordered the F-4M. There would have been no reason for F-4M considering its selling point was temporary mud mover role until the Jaguar was built. The British were said to have been presented with a Conway-powered “Super Crusader”, so its not too far of a stretch.
Agreed. And also funny you should mention that, I bought a magazine, Aviation Classics, vol: 5 and it featured the Lightning. A very good read even if you’re not interested in fighters. Theres a lot of stories in there about it as well as many other things about it, even mentions a couple of pilots ejecting from a two seater at 36.000ft at the speed of mach 1.8…Yes, 1.8!!! His fellow co-pilot being a bit more lucky having to eject at a lower altitude at just over mach 1.0. Both survived thankfully although ending up in a bad way. Incredible story.
The Lightning was never developed to its full potential, sadly. 9/10 the attention went to the Jaguar and Harrier for major upgrades leaving the RAF to keep it updated with what they had, sad fact but very true. The upgrades it could have had were everything from weapons, radar, avionics, electronics etc, you name it, it was planned.
So it turned out that F6 version of the Lightning was just an updated version of the first new Lightnings until later where it was to be upgraded to full potential later on…Sadly that was never to happen. Basically it was just a make do with what we’ve got. Imagine what it could have been? Only thoughts can imagine.
No matter how one looks at it, its still going to cost more than everyone thought it would, and if the UK really does cancel their lot then the price is sure to go up even more. That could start a chain reaction of mess to come.
So much of it being an “affordable”…
Typically there are two speeds for door open/close and launcher extend/retract. The slow mode is used during maintenance and weapons loading to prevent injuries to ground crew (gives them a chance to get their hands/arms out of the way). The fast mode is used during flight operations and shouldn’t take more than a couple seconds to open or close, extend or retract. I suspect the software being used during the video 1st flight demo was the slow mode to prevent equipment damage if the switchology was out of whack.
Makes sense. Is there any info about how fast the fast mode takes?
From ARES/Wall:
Canada’s, Netherland’s, even Australia’s F-35 prospects controversial.
LM really need to get their thumbs out of their ar$es if they want things to go ok. My memory is shady about the topic, but I remember watching a documentary a few years ago about when the Americans were in the process of getting the Dutch to buy the F-35, there was a little discussion between “two people” (of many) caught on camera about the “deel being made”, the American guy handed over the Dutch lady a scaled model of the F-35 and she said something along the lines of: “Oh? Is this it? Very nice!”Now, I don’t remember who these people were, so was that a military decision or a political decision? Hmm I think the latter.
Starting to remind me of the F-104 nonsense.
And nice to see that our old friend sferrin wrote a comment on that link…Still the nonsense one liners as usual.
First Internal Weapon launch for the F15 Silent Eagle…..
My goodness, how long does it actually take for those “doors” to open, missile to pop out, launch then close the bay again? Seems forever. Doesn’t look impressive enough to me.
If the decision is to go with Super Hornet then the RN could also mothball the Harrier and re-role Ark Royal/Illustrious whilst FAA pilots get trained in the US.
Kerching! 😀
Trained in the US? Yes but, what if the MoD decide to buy Rafale for their kids they don’t love, they could get waaaay cheaper flights to France when they send their non-important pilots and ground crew. Think of the money they’d save on flights and what not? C’mon think about it, those extra luxuries they’ll have with the spare change, David Cameron could even buy his little tea boy (Nick Glegg) a nice shiny new Jaguar, one with a V8, 5.0lt SUPERCHARGED engine! YEAH!…….Oh no wait, he’d get him the one with a puny deisel engine to show his superiority, don’t want the little tea boy having a more powerful Jag now does he…Save even more money too! Yaaaay posh upper class flats all round.
Kerching! 😀
Anyway, sorry for my rant, wheres pfcem & scooter when you need them? They could’ve solved this mess by now. :diablo:
To answer the question though, I agree with Kobayashi being the best of the new drivers and Lotus being the best new team (although I disagree with the HRT car being ugly).
Sorry I should have explained it a little better. I mean’t as in handling wise. The Lotus looks really good through the corners especially when you see the onboard footage of the car, it just looks at home. Where as the HRT car looks so ragged & awkward, the drivers seem to be fighting with it even on the slow corners, I’ll feel sorry for the drivers when Spa is next, especially on eau rouge.
Its quite a good looking car though, the HRT. Looks quite evil & menacing. As of looks, the Lotus is my favourite looking, can’t wait until theres a model of it released.
If Kobayashi goes the way he’s going now, providing he gets the right support, management, teams etc then he’s someone to watch out for, this chap definitely has something going for him, he’s a racing driver through & through and if I owned one of the top teams, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren & all, I’d be keeping an eye on him for a seat.
To answer the question though, I agree with Kobayashi being the best of the new drivers and Lotus being the best new team (although I disagree with the HRT car being ugly).
Sorry I should have explained it a little better. I mean’t as in handling wise. The Lotus looks really good through the corners especially when you see the onboard footage of the car, it just looks at home. Where as the HRT car looks so ragged & awkward, the drivers seem to be fighting with it even on the slow corners, I’ll feel sorry for the drivers when Spa is next, especially on eau rouge.
Its quite a good looking car though, the HRT. Looks quite evil & menacing. As of looks, the Lotus is my favourite looking, can’t wait until theres a model of it released.
If Kobayashi goes the way he’s going now, providing he gets the right support, management, teams etc then he’s someone to watch out for, this chap definitely has something going for him, he’s a racing driver through & through and if I owned one of the top teams, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren & all, I’d be keeping an eye on him for a seat.
Ferrari need F1 not the other way around.
Well, true, but F1 need Ferrari too, not as much as Ferrari need F1 but still, they’re needed. Not so much as in a sport, but commercial.
If someone asks you; from the top of your head name five car makers without thinking about it, one of them would be without doubt, Ferrari. Theres always a new generation of car enthusiasts coming about that don’t really pay attention to any kind of motorsport, sounds odd but its true, but still, they’re Ferrari nuts at heart, they get a bit more into them, not only do they follow their progress of road cars but they start to follow their racing progress, of which F1 was probably the most popular place to start. Thats how a lot of people get into F1. You’ll probably never hear anyone say; I got into F1 because I took a keen interest in the Sauber team’.
Saying that, theres a majority of F1 fans that have no clue what got them interested in F1, I’m probably one of them.
@ Lincoln 7, very lucky for you, really, I’ve never gotten that close to an F1 race even though I was very fortunate to meet my all time F1 hero twice. I’d love to have met Nigel, dispite him being a bit of a tough guy and maybe seem a little intimidating and being nicknamed Lion heart’, I’ve heard he’s a bit of a big softy at heart, real nice bloke.
I met Martin Brundle briefly too, he’s a good bloke too, very pleasant. He was hanging about with Damon when I met him in 99
Ferrari need F1 not the other way around.
Well, true, but F1 need Ferrari too, not as much as Ferrari need F1 but still, they’re needed. Not so much as in a sport, but commercial.
If someone asks you; from the top of your head name five car makers without thinking about it, one of them would be without doubt, Ferrari. Theres always a new generation of car enthusiasts coming about that don’t really pay attention to any kind of motorsport, sounds odd but its true, but still, they’re Ferrari nuts at heart, they get a bit more into them, not only do they follow their progress of road cars but they start to follow their racing progress, of which F1 was probably the most popular place to start. Thats how a lot of people get into F1. You’ll probably never hear anyone say; I got into F1 because I took a keen interest in the Sauber team’.
Saying that, theres a majority of F1 fans that have no clue what got them interested in F1, I’m probably one of them.
@ Lincoln 7, very lucky for you, really, I’ve never gotten that close to an F1 race even though I was very fortunate to meet my all time F1 hero twice. I’d love to have met Nigel, dispite him being a bit of a tough guy and maybe seem a little intimidating and being nicknamed Lion heart’, I’ve heard he’s a bit of a big softy at heart, real nice bloke.
I met Martin Brundle briefly too, he’s a good bloke too, very pleasant. He was hanging about with Damon when I met him in 99
Those “canard fanboys” are claiming that F-35 will be prohibitively expensive, in the first place. That includes me, as well.
And while the news about it keep coming from all corners of the world (first Denmark, then Canada, now Israel), there are some hard-core naysayers who keep throwin that $60mil flyaway figure around and think that means problem solved 😎If the F-35 is so expensive that it actually pays off thinking about procuring Super Hornets or Rafales at the price of rebuilding carriers, then it only shows how “cheaper than Rafale” it really is 🙂
And if the F-35 is as cheap as LM and the oh mighty lord say it is then the UK wouldn’t have dropped it. (Allegedly).
you are absolutely right
but dont the canard fanboys love the thought of the f-35 dying, even to the point of backing another usa plane, the super hornet, something i’m pretty sure if i searched this site, each has rubbished
Oh please, come back with a ‘thought’ next time, Yank. And besides, the “canard fanboys” probably love how much the F-35 really is. :rolleyes: :diablo:
So anyway, moving on, what about the RAF then? Will they get F-18’s too or do without?
This is madness everyone knows that unless you delay CVF by a further few years until EMAL is ready then a STOVL aircraft is the only way to go. Steam cats could be fitted but it would cost so much extra in restructuring to covert from STOVL to CATOBAR that it would end up costing more than purchasing F35b in the first place. You can’t just look at the cost of the aircraft you have to look at the cost of training for CATOBAR and expensive integration of catapults into carrier that were designed for STOVL not steam catapults.
I think some people underestimate the Queen Elizabeth carriers when it comes to adding catapults etc, if you do a little research about them, they’re actually designed to outlast, if you like, aircraft that exist or are planned to fly from them, hence why they’re designed to have upgrades in the future.
If this news is 100% official and true, then I have to say; Well, it was going to happen sooner or later due to the rising costs of the F-35, basically I’m not really surprised its come to this. (So there you go ‘F-35 fanboys’, can’t be that cheap and cheerful as its made out to be, can it!)
I can’t say I’m not surprised their choice of F-18’s though, I was half expecting them to choose Rafale, but ah well. I’m just wondering if what UK tech could be installed onto the F-18?
Also, if UK have “swapped” then I wonder how many more countries will follow because its sure that the price of the F-35 will go up once again now that UK has, if you like, pulled out.
I don’t know who claimed that. The Raptor uses some IR suppresion methods but they are not that radical (as RCS reduction)
Just a thought…And a fact, Dave Morgan, an RAF Harrier pilot that flew with the Royal Navy during the Falklands War, managed to lock-on to a manure heap on the ground a good few miles away with an AIM-9L from his Shar FRS1, that was in the 80’s. So if that can be done then I’m sure more modern and advance heat seaking A/A missiles can get a heat signature from an F-22.