EELightningI’m tempted to say “as usual”…Sry to German friends, but it is becoming a recurrent behavior (A400M etc.)
There’s no surprise there, really. The German Tranche 3B was in doubt for a long time, it was just a matter of not if but when they’ll cancel. No shock, but it gives the usual suspects ‘over there’ something to gloat about.
On the plus side, additional units for someone else interested, i.e. Saudi Arabia.
1. It’s a pity that so much of the enhancement is classified without permission for public, thus we know so little about the enhancement compared to the other programs like Gripen NG, Rafale, SH.
Some is generally released to the public but the details are kept obscure, for obvious reason, understandably. As is the way these days we get a small piece of information released and that’s about it, a while later we tend to learn that whatever the piece is about, it’s come on a long way since it was introduced or reported. For example the Drop Enhancements, what usually is reported about those is more than certain to be out of date by time of press release because those enhancements are being improved and upgraded along the way as we’re already reading through the article and learning of what they used to be capable of.
2. I am looking forward to the Red Flag ’14 report and I believe we’ll learn sth more …
It could possibly be about the latest P1Es, but we’ll see…
EELightningF1 cars of each decade since the 1950s cannot be compared to one another. Each decade the technology was pushed to its absolute limits, within reasons of the regulations. The late ’60s and ’70s up until the mid ’80s (even very early ’90s) the technology was pushed to its furthest and even beyond in many cases which would be considered rather extreme by today’s standard. By comparison, the technology today and what the engineers can produce is strictly limited, they’re on a very tight budget and they’re lawed by Rules of what they can do and can’t do, such restrictions were unthinkable back… well actually, as little back as 2008.
Formula 1 has always been about pushing technology and driver ability, what can be said today can easily be said in the ’50s, that’s why the cars have been getting faster and more advanced, simply due to technology. ’50s F1 technology was as state of the art back then as ’13 F1 technology was state of the art yesteryear.
Many people say Formula 1 today is boring… It begs the question; ‘When did they start watching this Sport?’… Because I seem to remember in the ’80s, ’90s and the ’00s that the top two, or sometimes three teams, the better one was 2-3 seconds a lap faster than the team below, those guys were then 3-4-5-6+ seconds a lap faster than the teams below the rest, right from when the lights went out. On average today we’re lucky, or seldom, to see the quickest guy in the field achieve anything more than a 4 second lead by time he takes his first pit stop, on many occasions the gap between the podium finishers has been around that figure or less, much less. Back then, it was common and expected to see the guy in front to lap the entire field by 1 Lap and still have 30+ seconds before the Lapped guy in 2nd crossed the line. That’s unheard of these days.
I’ve followed the sport for as long as I can remember from a very young age – where I could understand what was going on on a very basic scale, mid ’80s. And I can count from the top of my head on both hands where there’s been such close races throughout the three decades, where I can do that I can twice as many close races in two seasons of last and previous, despite Vettel being dominant.
The racing today is much closer.
EELightningEverything indicates that in the last few years Typhoon increased a lot its operational capability:
– in 2008 Swiss evaluation weak point was EW and data sensor fusion
Indeed, there has been a lot of changes underneath the aircraft since 2008, which are rather significant and have come on leaps and bounds. However, such changes are incredibly difficult to come across and even happen without being reported, thus makes many people believe everything is just the same as they were 6-7 years ago.
– Luftwaffe report from Red Flag 2012 and RAF from Red Flag 2013 said that the Radar, DASS, and probably sensor fusion was much better than before enhancement.
Both the Luftwaffe and the RAF have been heavily involved, although quite low key to the public, in introducing a lot of upgrades and enhancements to these kind of exercises. The RAF have just finished taking part in Exercise Red Flag ’14 so we’re going to learn something new very soon. From what one can gather, Jamie Hunter was present throughout the exercise with the RAF and has something rather interesting to report.
The Governments of the United Kingdom (UKG) and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA) have now agreed price escalation terms relating to the Typhoon aircraft under the Salam programme.
I’m sure talks shall commence for additional units now the price has been resolved. Additional 48, 72, more?… Guesses?
I foresee Bahrain making a decision soon.
EELightningRed Bull will find a way round the regulations as usual and everyone else will cry unfair.
That’s how it’s always worked, ever since 1950.
I would love to see that smirking Vettel brought down a peg or two though.
‘I can’t be the one to blame for my performance… It’s the others, at the moment they’re just not as quick as me.’
– Sebastian Vettel… The Pro-Brit German, general British Sitcom fan – especially Monty Python, does British accents, a genuine laugh and a bloody fantastic driver to boost. His results speaks volumes! The only driver on the grid that has a sense of humour and understands, ‘Understatement’.
I love to see the guy win. Best of luck to him!
EELightningOh, so if I said that the Pak Fa can fly mach 4 backwards that is fine, so long as there is no evidence to prove that it can’t, right? :stupid:
Do they have schools where you come from?
Let me explain it to you in the simpler terms you are struggling to find.
If someone can not support an assertion, then it may be dismissed outright.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence” -Christopher Hitchens
You are welcome.
Why so hostile?… As someone mentioned earlier, do you not read?
Hey ho… Back to life… Not enough time to waste it arguing with people that have too much time on their hands.
You’re welcome.
EELightningI am not sure what your point is.
I can’t really explain in more simpler terms…
If there is no evidence to support an assertion then people shouldn’t be making that assertion.
If there’s no evidence to support an assertion then it also cannot be stated as false, no?
EELightningI pointed out that that was false on multiple levels. There is no evidence that the Rafale “went in and out as it wanted,” only that a handful operated somewhere over Libya a few hours ahead of the rest of the coalition.
Lets be realistic, such evidence is hardly going to be released to the public via various several reports, are they… Really.
One is rather interested in the RAF Tornado GR4 Storm Shadow sorties, all one can gather is; they took off from RAF bases in the UK, then released the weapons a could of hundred Ks from their intended targets. Anything more is rather strictly classified, the same goes for any other kind of sortie.
EELightningI believe what Halloweene is trying to point out, is; The Libyan Air Defence system wasn’t an old relic system and neither was it the most sophisticated, yet it was still a threat to Allied aircraft nevertheless. Nothing more, nothing less.
EELightningOnce again, well done on missing the points, Rkumer.
“Common sense, I introduce you to Brick. Brick, I introduce you to common sense!’
Oh, I’ve figured it out, but your (supposed) sarcasm spoke the truth or something close to it. Dassault needs to fix how it does things, or it could loose the sale.
Not quite, try again… I’m in agreement Dassault needs to fix how they do things, however the door swings both ways, India are pretty notorious for taking a very long time to get things done with regards to deals. They’re not without faults too.
Apparently India is going it alone. It may or may not succeed.
Sure about that?…
They’ll succeed one way or another, sooner or later, trial and error. Nobody gets anywhere without error, sadly. However it’s the most valuable lesson.
Either way there’ll be snide comments from self-appointed gutter inspectors. Just water off a duck’s back my friend.
Well, you missed the point earlier, but whatever… As afore mentioned, one couldn’t give a Monkey for India’s Space Programme, nor any other Space Programme for that matter, that doesn’t mean there’s any willingness for it fail, best of luck to it all. There’s just other things in the world that are that bit more important to life.
Whom are these Gutter Inspectors I wonder… Dyno-Rod, maybe…
EELightningCool 😀 – Now if only Dassault would also correct its attitude, they would get somewhere!
I’d let you in on a little secret… But you have to learn to figure it out for yourself. Ssssh!
EELightningHow does it matter what foreigners commentate on India’s space program? We are attempting to go to Mars, they are watching from the ground and conducting gutter inspections!
Going alone, are you?…
:dev2:
EELightningDeals are signed base on written documents which form the basis. If Dassault or anyone thinks otherway, they are wasting theirs and ours time. Happy to read that you accept problem on both sides and can see slight changing attitude. I can’t stop anyone, expressing their views.
It’s perfectly clear both sides have issues that needs to be resolved, the problem is that some people are seeming to point the finger at one side and not another.
lol … keep these double standards of civilised world with yourself. You can’t bear that a so called third world is having a successful space program while you don’t have. It is called inferiority complex, get used to it.
I can do only healthy discussion, I don’t have the time luxury to educate people.
Well done, you failed to get the idea, but nevermind. It’s not my job to point out the obvious or provide the differences between meanings to people that are a little too dense to comprehend, it was a simple explanation in comparing, I could have used other examples of the necessities and indulgencies, just so it happens it happened to be one two Indian chaps didn’t like. Oh and… I couldn’t give two Monkeys about India’s Space Programme, but lets face it, I’m more than happy to put people before something that has already been discovered decades ago. At least there’s a bit of pride there. Much more civilised.
Too Halloweene, TooCool, TR1 and others regarding Shalav… He’s right, France/Dassault are in the wrong, India are innocent and are correct. There’s no argument! *Sarcasm!*
EELightningNo one requires or asked for your sympathy.
Someone did at some point.
Verbal statements have no values, what matters is on the signed paper. Getting tired of stupid posts, where people keep finding faults in one party and giving undue benefit to other.
Verbal statements affect the outcome of any deal, common sense, think about it. If you’re getting tired of “stupid posts” then maybe you should be quoting your fellow countryman because he’s obviously lacking something. Also, if you’d taken the time to actually read what was posted you’d see that both side’s have made mistakes. There’s no one-sided ways about it.
What is your point by brining in this non-sense? Does it add any value to the topic? Aid, UK, Space program!!! For us space program is a necessity point. We don’t have to explain the benefits to others.
It was an attempt to point out necessities and indulgences, nothing to do with whom has what nor whom receives how much aid. Get the idea?… Obviously not. But hey, feel free to explore the unknowns of space while India’s large poverty stricken areas makes the rest of the civilised world’s poverty look like they’re seriously well off, and some. So, you know… Improve the poor sod’s slums or explore the Moon, you’re right, you don’t have to explain anything to others. Necessities and indulgences & all that…
It will bring benefit to both countries. With the money French can improve their industry by investing it new product.
And with France’s knowhow, there’s opportunities for Indian industrial workers to learn more, create new apprenticeships, new lives etc. etc. etc… Why was I quoted again…
EELightning1 Rafale = 2MKI or 4 Tejas. Squadron strength will actually be better if the Rafale is not purchased.
Can you provide any realistic, official figures, especially for Tejas?
EELightningIAF don’t have a Rafale, and they need the M2K to continue on, so Dassault mugged India for 2.4 billion delighted at the 2.4 b in their bank, but crapped on their future 20 b deal.
Don’t feel sorry for yourself or for India, because I certainly don’t have any sympathy for the country. It’s pretty simple, India accepted Dassault’s offer which indicates India were/are fine with the overall deal, or, and… Dassault accepted India’s demands and requirements and price tag and the deal was done which would indicate both sides came to an agreement. It does not indicate no one crapped on or mugged another and besides, two totally different deals.
India had a specific set of demands for the competitors of the mmrca competition. Dassault does not want to keep those terms now that it is the ‘sole’ vendor again. Just like they tried to mug India for few dozen new build M2K.
One remembers just before the L1 bidder was announced for the MMRCA, a Dassault Official stated to India that; ‘Select Rafale as L1 now, and we’ll negotiate the terms afterwards.’ (words to that affect). Indian officials accepted, Dassault/France and every other contender knew India’s demands… So whom is to blame for that now that the discussions are seeming to be hitting numerous obstacles?… Dassault made a bold move with that shot, and credits due where its due, it paid off… Maybe India should have looked ahead more, they certainly jumped the gun that time.
My friend it seems you seem to think the buyer with the money needs to compromise, while in the real world its the other way round. Its always the seller who will compromise.
No, in the real world, both compromise.
Like I mentioned before the Rafale is good, but not good enough for the buyer to compromise more than what it is willing to give right now. It is an indulgence not a necessity, Dassault seems to have forgotten that.
India, with it’s own space programme, still receives aid annually from the UK, that is an indulgence not a necessity. The Rafale on the other hand, as a whole and what potential it brings to India, not just the aircraft but to India’s industry, is quite the opposite. Look at the bigger picture, there are reasons why India want such a huge amounts of an industry boost.
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