EELightningWhat did all of the JSF Partners add to the F-35!:rolleyes:
Hardly a fair comparison, for example if you take the UK’s contribution into consideration one would know that they have a far more understanding in all things military aviation related in their history compared to the likes of South Korea, of which, the UK had the FOAC (Future Offensive Aircraft Capability) Programme, which remarkably looked like the future JSF, but was unfortunately cancelled in 2001… Funnily enough, just a very short while before LM were awarded the contract… Hmmm… So there’s no doubt UK have contributed a lot, and more taken into account the FOAC knowledge. As far other “partners”, add up the pennies to what they’ve poured into the JSF Programme and I’m sure many F-35 supporters would say, (and indeed they very much have done): ‘Pffft so what, only a small amount compared to the US’ contribution!’. Then take into account the alarming budget issues the programme has hit as well as the (for example) US Armed Forces have – which has been recently reported that the USAF may have to retire whole fleets, so they’re facing radical reductions as are other branches – then… take what the “Partners” have put in away…
Take a moment to think about that:*… all of a sudden that small amount seems quite significant, doesn’t it not.
I say this because the quoted comment of yours suggests that the JSF Partner’s contributions isn’t really that important.
EELightningSure, but that was how many years after the first Typhoons went IOC? I am not attacking the Typhoon, just explaining to our confused friend that it is normal for new aircraft to enter service without their full capabilities.
Fair game, I see where you’re coming from. But thinking about it, which aircraft have fully met their full potential, really? As long as they’re going to be in service they’re always (usually) going to be updated on a regular basis right up until a couple of years before the type is to be retired, the Tornado GR4 is a good example. I think ‘full capabilities’ is over (or under) looked somewhat, ironically I think the majority of aircraft never fully meet their full capabilities – there’s always ways to improve.
EELightningDon’t expect to see F-35Bs relying on a buddy aircraft to lase targets for them as French Rafale required on their first deployment to Afghanistan or British Typhoons required recently in Libya.
A couple of minor corrections needed there, they’re very easy to research, it took me 2 minutes to re-remind myself… Rafale’s first “deployment” didn’t involve relying on buddy aircraft to lase targets, simply because the aircraft couldn’t drop it’s bollox let alone any munitions, there for they didn’t see any action. Obviously, it would soon accelerate it’s capabilities quite significantly.
It is correct that Typhoon relied on Tornado GR4s to lase it’s weapons but that was short lived once they got their own LDPs, which it proved to have a very impressive record at the end despite it’s lack of A/G capabilities.
EELightningIn addition if India would purchase the F-35 to supplement the PAK-FA/FGFA. Then it could gain the added but unexpected benefit of Stealth Technology from both West and East. (plus Competition)
Naïve. With India and Russia having such a close relationship, the US would never contemplate sharing Stealth technology with India, they’re a too paranoid and mistrusting nation to do that. Going by the recent spying shenanigans by the US on their European “Allies”, what makes you or anyone else think they’d treat India any differently.
EELightningI wonder why they are aiming for a 10 ton class motor when there are 15 ton motors available AND in use. Seems silly to aim so low for an F414 or EJ2x0 when the F100 and F110 are available. Why leave out Russian and Ukraine options like the RD33, AL31, and AL22? Really, they ought to look for twin F125-class if they are aiming so low, considering they could just as easily as Taiwan did and own the rights to produce them. It’s much easier to build a centerline weapon bay with a twin engine design.
With regards to the EJ200: Right now, the EJ200 in service at the moment produces 13,000lb (60kN) of Dry Thrust and 20,000lb (90kN) in Reheat. Studies for Growth have suggested that an EJ200 will be able to produce 16,500lb (72kN) in Dry Thrust and 23,100lb (103kN) with Reheat. It has just been recently announced that further Growth Potential studies have been undertaken for an even more powerful derivative of the engine offering 17,500lb (78kN) in Dry Thrust and some 27,000lb (120kN) in Reheat, 30% more than the standard engine.
This would likely be why South Korea are looking at this engine.
EELightningTo say “5th Generation” is a “big leap in fighter evolution” is rather vague to say the least. The “4th, 4.5th, 5th Generation” thing is just a marketing gimmick, the definition of it is as mixed up as Jeremy Clarkson’s Tool Box of Hammers. The element that stands out most is the aircraft’s Stealth, of which I would say is an evolution of aircraft design, make no mistake about it. However, is it a big as leap in aircraft evolution since the Jet Engine? No. When the Jet Engine’s teething issues were resolved Propeller Driven fighters were very quickly a thing of the past, in Military Aviation time it was quite literally a last year thing and everyone jumped on the Fighter Jet Bandwagon. Stealth came about a long time ago, it was and still is a big thing but it’s not had such an impact on aviation like the Jet Engine had. It’s hardly put an end to Non-Stealth Fighters like Jet Fighters put an end to Prop-Driven Fighters.
On another note: I’m not sure why the F-35 is getting such a tough time about it’s A/A capabilities, I must admit, I’m not one of it’s greatest admirers and it certainly wouldn’t be my first choice of a fighter to perform Air-Superiority roles, far from it, but the simple fact of the matter is; It’s a Multi-Role aeroplane with a priority for A/G roles and like I said earlier, that doesn’t mean it’s such a bad performer in A/A. Also, what is funny is, why is that many people take a pop at it for lacking in A/A (I’m not certain I must admit) but when people mention how great the F-22 is in A/A, no one points out that it lacks and takes a pop at it’s A/G capabilities… After all, even the F-22 had Multi-Role in mind yet no one tends to point out it’s short comings. How odd.
EELightningLOLLZZ
here comes a homo sapien lecturing me about moderation meanwhile who himself resort to PA/ insults against a person who
has been banned previously for pulling of pants down of some
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?126622-F-35-News-Multimedia-amp-Discussion-thread-(2)&p=2082511#post2082511
Well done, you’ve just explained the definition of Contradiction and Irony in that little sentence of yours. The person, Troll, I was referring to is well known for being banned and signing up again under a new Username rather often, someone that throws hissy fits and insults to members that provide official sources that conflicts with his own and also fails to have a down to earth discussion about it. And now he’s back on that sad excuse of a forum doing the same.
plz do me & this forum a favour dont waste my & readers of this forum’s time by quoting my posts
BTW i am not a moderator of that forum , rather join that forum if u have guts to debate
I did join that forum, when this Troll was under his Dare2 Username, and he accused me of making claims that I didn’t even think about let alone mention, that’s another trait of his, putting words into other people’s mouths to make his look more valuable to him, sad.
And how mature of you to Quote me over on that place, feeling insecure, found out, belittled are you… There you go, you and your little pet Troll has just proved it. Feel free to do it again, I’m sure it cures the pain inside.
Before I’m done with you! Do me and this forum members a favour. Don’t waste time by Quoting me on here, you might get the idea, figure it out!
Ta!
EELightningThis is why I rarely bother to visit AFm forums.
Almost no mods, and the same old usual suspect, Scooter, who will derail threads in a manic attempt to bring the F-35 into every single thread.
Moderators…where are you?
Although I’m not on much recently, even when I get the chance which is seldom and even so, Wi-Fi is sometimes difficult to get with being on the move constantly, I do like to catch up or at least try to, and find out what’s been going, especially about the PAK-FA Programme despite not contributing much about this particular topic, if at all. So it’s nice to try and read through things without anyone going off the rails and such, at which point my interest just wanders which is a shame since there’s a lot of members that do contribute a lot well worth reading about.
EELightningBut people are here are more bothered to pamper their egos about their knowledge rather than spreading knowledge.
the forum need quality posts member not higher number of posts members
You’re saying that, and you’re a “Moderator” on the Indian Defence Forum? Which features the Princess of Trolls – Sampaix/Gegene/Fonk/Dare2/DragonMaster/Dragonfly, widely known in Aviation Forums the world over…
You need to think about that.
EELightningSorry, wrong again!….
Yes…
You see, there’s a few snags here. An active Typhoon pilot has recently stated that this is, more or less, wishful thinking. There’s no information of the exact performance figures of Typhoon, obviously, but there are snippets of official information that would suggest it’s a rocket of a thing. Nat Makepeace is a source that springs to mind, going in the vertical after take-off and breaking Mach 1.0 at 6,000ft for example – figures that have actually been recorded and made public by a pilot. If the F-35 of any variant can match that at least then maybe the LM pilots have a point, otherwise it’s the usual marketing from just another manufacturer… after all, you said yourself there’s ‘no hard data available to the public’… despite someone already has posted/attached a chart from LM… It kinda questions the credentials somewhat.
Another snag, why is LM stating an F/A-18 and a Typhoon? I know LM have issues making up the definition of “5th Generation” but surely if this LM test pilot has flown all these types then he should remember that gap between these two aeroplanes is as big as the gap between Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber…
Doesn’t really add up to much, does it…
EELightningBeautiful video, and that exact same thought also came to my mind when watching !
It really does show the great contrast between the two birds.
Well, one or two fellow French internet users tend to believe the Typhoon is just a souped-up Mirage… Mind, they’re a bit touched in a Patriotic way so it’s no surprise really.
In other news, (of which I’m way behind on I must say):
Cassidian, the defence division of EADS, has successfully finalized its flight testing of the Eurofighter Typhoon Phase 1 Enhancements (P1E) programme. After an intensive test programme of this First Batch of Enhancements on Instrumented Production Aircraft 4 and 7, this enhancement is confirmed to deliver a robust simultaneous multi-/swing-role capability to the Nations’ Air Forces. It will be ready for the customers by the end of 2013.
EELightningAlmost any fighter can act as an interceptor (my point about the F-35) but a true purpose built interceptor is a dying/dead concept.
Indeed. Gone are the days when aircraft were built for specific roles. Today, aircraft still have an area where there’s a priority, F-35 is aimed more at A/G and the Typhoon is aimed for at A/A, that doesn’t mean they’re no good in other roles, the likes of these aeroplanes have always had multi-role in mind from when Boffins were making the blueprints.
EELightningAs for a faster/higher flying platform… what makes you think the advantage gained would be worthwhile? Internet forums seem permanently rooted in the thinking of the late 1950s and early 1960s. (witness the ongoing Mig-31 thread…) The Mig-25/31, YF-12, Avro Arrow, XF-108, and XB-70 rule the skies. They are simply too fast and too high-flying to be engaged by the likes of F-15s, Eurofighters, Rafales, Su-27s or even F-22s. :very_drunk:
But, but, but… haven’t you heard, Hopsalot? Fonk/Sampaix/Gegene/Dare2/DragonMaster/Dragonfly says the Rafale can reach Mach 2.0+ with a weapons/drop tank configuration. Ask Halloweene about it!
:dev2:
EELightningWhich, is why we are very careful not to mix Politics and Religion in our country……….
*Coughs & chokes!*…
I’ve been, and still going (currently on the way to New Jersey from New York), all over the US at the minute, I’ve met a lot of very interesting people discussing many topics and I’m surprised (for me at least) how long it takes to start talking about Politics, which isn’t very long, and how Religion is very much apart of the former topic. I asked one guy, a very nice polite guy, the other week that was hanging outside a venue; ‘Why is Religion such a significant part of US Politics? In the UK it is seldom mentioned, if at all.’ The looks I got were quite confound.
EELightningImagine you were talking to your grandfather
You: what did you do in the war, grandfather?
Grand: I executed an injured man, lad.
You: why?
Grandad: To put him out of his misery! Despite him supporting (of which he could have easily been behind of) Terrorists that believe it’s perfectly acceptable to Hi-Jack civilian airlines and fly them into World Trade Centres, Bomb Buses and the Tube killing and maiming innocent civilians, beheading innocent people on the internet, murdering and torturing their own kind for not believing their Extremist ways etc. etc. etc… I thought it was the most humane thing to do… because I didn’t want my Grandson to think I was some sort of monster leaving him to suffer!”
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