TR1Omg.. this post does not make ANY sense:stupid:
TR1 just told you what Borisov actually said.
What the Autor(of your claim) said does not matter one bit in this debate.. Fake News!If you have any other sources(Gutenev), then pls post a Link.
Gutenev is a Duma member.
He knows absolutely nothing about the Su-57 that anyone on this board does not.
Quoting him as a source just shows how laughably little RALL actually knows about the topic.
It is equivalent to citing Alexandria Cortez about American defense spending.
Then again this is the same guy who thinks some drivel from Indian newspapers (lmao) is actually valuable insight into the PAK-FA program.
TR1If you like the quote where russian officials tell Su-35S is so good than F-35/F-22 ( Gutenev i think), is perfect and nice, because on this way they are telling Su-35 S is only slighty superior to Su-57, otherwise Su-57 would be miles aways from F-35/F-22 performance, and i do not think a person is so stupid about believe this.
Not man, you are confused about words of Krasnoperov, read again….
it is very clear he tells, ALL characteristics of the Su-57 and Su-35 very similar, and on engine more.
But be happy man, do not suffer.:rolleyes:
You seem the KGB twin.
As expected, you are a chronic BSer.
1.) No Russian official actually part of the Su-57 program or with access to both planes has said the Su-35S is almost as good across the board. That is bold faced lie. As we discovered, the article you linked is empty drivel. It quotes Deputats (who have NO access to the program) talking about saving money via the Su-35. Their words on Su-57 literally are worthless. And as we just saw, not accurate either, as it is being ordered en-masse.
2.) You are picking and choosing quotes out of thin air. I can find a bunch of articles by FORMER AF or defense officials severely criticizing the F-35. What does it mean, anything? Nope.
3.) The FORMER pilot you quote has no access to the Su-57. What do his words mean about it? Anything?
Not to mention he never specifies what characteristics are similar, again this is you pulling out wishful thinking out of your rear.
4.) Funny how you chose to not believe that the Su-35 is almost as good as the F-22/35, yet believe something as idiotic (and utterly unsourced) as the Su-35 being almost as good as the Su-57. Critical thinking, ever heard of it?
I’ll be happy when you stop posting drivel. Post stupid articles as proof, expect to be called out on it.
Even basic logic destroys your laughable argument.
I am curious, why you are not quoting Shoigu, Borisov, Putin, Pogosyan or other far more relevant people to the program 😀 ?
Don’t fit the narrative some randos are pushing?
TR1https://vz.ru/society/2018/7/6/931118.html
Here the article where i read time ago. And yes, you have reason was not Borisov who told it, it was said by others.
So I am not obtuse and i am not lying intentionally, in fact you can read the article where i read that, so if next time you do not show any respect do not wait i will not have any respect about you. Capicci?
Right so let’s summarize.
1.) Borisov did not say that. He said Su-35 was good enough for now, they could wait for Su-57.
2.) The quote about the Su-35 being “almost as good” as the Su-57 if from the freaking author of the article. In other words, it is a meaningless statement by someone who has nothing to do with the program.
The same author quotes – “И это значит, что массовый выпуск Су-57 мы не увидим, скорее всего, никогда.”. That mass production of the Su-57 will never happen. As we have just seen, that is laughably untrue, and reflects on the author as a whole.
I am very interested however why you selectively chose to quote that – but not other stuff from the article that does not fit your narrative:
“В некоторой степени Су-35 не уступают F-35 и F-22 – самолетам пятого поколения, считает депутат.” Su-35 matches F-22/35 in many ways. Hehehehe, accurate, right?
3.) Your quote about a FORMER pilot (AKA, one who does not have any experience with Su-57) is that they are similar in regards to engines.
Which they are. Duh. That is a no brainer.
4.) try not posting bullshit narrative articles, and you will get a non-bullshit response.
TR1Did Scooter finally join KGB in the banned party?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlriJOTJlGo
Su-57 laughing at his stupidity.
But dopes aside, so far Putin’s Akhtubinsk visit has been one massive cock-tease.
Fairly little good new footage. However in that video you can see Kinzhal, MiG-31 with new ASAT, R-37, and am I seeing something interesting under the wings of the MiG-35?
TR1A large purchase like that is a pretty good indication that the tests of Izd 30 is going smoothly. The Su-57 is a looker, so I’ll be glad to see start to enter service in numbers in the next several years. But, poor, poor Scooter.
Scooter – But, but, but…Russian J-31! 😉
Note how his account says “Guest” now lmao!
Did he finally lose his mind when he was utterly wrong yet again?
TR1I remenber Borisov told Su-57 only was slighter superior to Su-35 S, so prices per unit should be not enough different. First units of course will be expensive while production line is not ready but when production line will be normalized and assembling 10-12 units per year, prices should be similar.
No he did not. He said nothing of the sort.
I have repeatedly corrected this claim.
Are you being purposefully obtuse, or lying?
TR1It quotes Putin as saying the plan was to buy 16 in this GPV, but he and Shoigu in their infinite wisdom lowered prices and are now able to buy way more in the same time frame.
Really this is just confirmation that there will be a gradual increase as concurrent orders are placed over the next few years. 76 is the goal by 2028. Not clear if this includes the small 117 powered batches that were supposed to trickle in over next few years.
Also states they want 3 regiments equipped with the plane by 2028.
TR1https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6434341
Aaaand the process for serial contracts has began, as anyone with a functioning brain knew it would.
Putin says they are working on contract that will be signed in the near future, for 76 Su-57 by 2028.
Also stated goal is for 100 Mi-28NM by 2028.
TR1https://www.janes.com/article/88365/russia-adopts-new-generation-guided-bomb
VKS getting new sat guided glide bombs this year:
[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”data-attachmentid”:3862009}[/ATTACH]
TR1https://www.janes.com/article/88324/indian-mod-approves-procurement-of-10-more-ka-31-helos
India buying another 10 Ka-31, 500 million USD deal.
TR1Pretty interesting, close up high quality footage of VKS airstrike on an undergound bunker in Idlib- clear use of BETAB concrete penetrating bombs. Unguided, but accuracy is good:
TR1It has been an eventful several days!
On the 23rd, Gremyashy went to sea for trials”
[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”data-attachmentid”:3860481}[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”data-attachmentid”:3860482}[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”data-attachmentid”:3860483}[/ATTACH]
And Kasatonov did as well:
[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”data-attachmentid”:3860484}[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”data-attachmentid”:3860485}[/ATTACH]
Then today:
Next two 22350 frigates were laid down @ Severanaya, modified project with 24 UKSK cells, not 16 like previous ships:
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3620778.html
[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”data-attachmentid”:3860486}[/ATTACH]
The ship in the back is Derzky (or is it Merkury now?), the first 20386 frigate.
And two more 11711 landing ships @ Yantar, though the project has been heavily modifed (and larger, up to 8k tons):
[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”data-attachmentid”:3860487}[/ATTACH]
And finally the special purpose nuclear sub, and now the longest sub on earth, Belgorod was launched @ Sevmash:
[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”data-attachmentid”:3860488}[/ATTACH]
TR1https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6364084
Interesting- plans to replace all 18 MiG-29s operating in Armenia with Su-30SM, over 2020-2021. I guess that is where the additional batch (or at least part of it) that will be ordered from Irkut after the current contract soon runs out will go.
Also makes sense in light of Armenia finally getting its own Su-30SMs soon, they can train with VKS and bum off their spares and support.
I wonder what will happen to those MiGs, they were some of the newer, relatively, air-frames produced and underwent overhaul a few years back.
Also curious where the new MiG-35s that VKS is ordering will now go. One of them had its first flight recently:
[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”data-attachmentid”:3860388}[/ATTACH]
TR1How? 117S fan diameter is bigger, so nacelle and intake need to be reshaped like on Su-35. That’s a lot of cost.
There is an OKR (research project) from 2017 to modernize Su-30SM with 117S.
TR1Over the years we have had a discussion over dock and slipway size in Russian shipyards, pertaining to the construction of larger warships. Found this interesting document from 2017, re. the possibility of constructing the Leader icebreaker in a number of potential yards in the near future. Document was made by Central Research Institute of Shipbuilding Technology- this isn’t a secret document or anything and it appears they relied mostly on open sources to make it, so there is the possibility of mistakes. Someone already mentioned the Zvezda dock maximum capacity (I guess this translates to keel load per meter? Unsure exactly) in the original project was 150, not 300 ton/meter, though since then and after a minor scandal they changed the project to increase maximum capacity of the dock.
The document did assume the ship is pretty damn big, 209 meter length, 47.7 meter width, 11+ meter draft. Icebreakers are also really heavy for their size, probably much more so than say a Mistral. Hull itself would have a mass of around 32K tons, displacement almost 57,000 tons, though I have read more recent estimates that full displacement will be around 75K tons.
Sevmash:
-Covered slipways are huge, Slipway 2 is 370×80 (gate width 72m) meters and about 300×44 for each of the smaller slipways (behind the Vikra in the pics). The issue is of course they are already heavily loaded with nuclear sub work inside the slipways, and would need a new transfer dock to launch the ships into the basin, as well as deepening of the parts of the basin itself and expanding the basin lock gates.
-Cost and scope of work to build a surface ship of this size is pretty excessive.
Zvezda:
-Dock plans are to make it 485×114 meters, water depth of 11.5m, though I think they have since increased the depth (due in part to Leader desires).
-There is also the open slipway, which has several sections of about 390 meters in length, and from 110 to 40 meters in width. Weight capacity makes high level of hull completion impossible here though (200tons/meter).
-Possible location of Leader build (this has only increased in likeliness since they published this and changed some dock plans).
Baltisky Zavod:
-Slipway ‘A’ is 350.4 x 36 meters. Not big enough for leader, probably at its limit with 1144 nuclear cruiser size vessel. Same with weight, capacity is for 150 t/meter max. Also a ship of this size might have problems with the canal the shipyard is located on.
-Leader could only be built if the proposed open dock was built (cross section in the document). I also found this pic of a proposed covered slip, but this is only a proposal at this point in any-case:
https://2019.f.a0z.ru/04/01-7361417-snimok-ekrana-2019-04-01-v-7.18.43.png
Severnaya Verf:
-Obviously in its current state not made for ships of this size and displacement.
-There is a modernization project that has started which will add two covered slipways, but from what I have seen in pics it is only in the early stages so far, so not sure when that will be done. Probably relevant for new destroyers in the 2020s though.
Zaliv:
-The dock is 354×60 meters, 400 ton/meter max capacity. Obviously the only one like Zvezda which currently has Gantry cranes over the dock. 11 meter dock water depth not enough for something the size of Leader however, so the whole thing could not be finished in there.
-Document is pretty high on Zaliv’s ability to modernize to do the work within a reasonable time-frame and cost. Like I said however, it seems like USC is aiming to do the project at Zvezda.
However it does raise possibility of Zaliv playing a role in large warship construction next decade.
Document also estimates cost and time to modernize shipyards to work on “Leader” as well as some other comments, ask if there is anything you want translated.
Sign In
