tphuangWell I can certainly think of one country currently buying Super Hornets that would be better of with the Strike Eagle.;)
but they already have bugs! Although, eagles would be far better planes.
tphuangShanghai Hudong Shipyard (I think 😮 Pinko should no better)
hudong ZhongHua shipyard. From the speed at which the first 054A and 071 came out of this yard + the construction speed of the second 054A, I have a feeling that you can produce upwards of 1 071 and 2-3 054A out of this shipyard per year, which is quite significant. Although, I have a feeling they will be building more supply ships in HD after the 071 business is finished.
tphuangadd to that, nearing service-
051C – 2
054A – 2-4 (If anybody has photographic evidence of more than 2 seperately identifiable hulls please let me know.)Whilst the Delhi may be the best all rounder, it is likely that the 052C and Sovremmenys better it in AShM armament and equal or better it in AAW performance.
054A – currently two under construction in both HP and HD shipyards. In HP, one is already launched and looks like all of the sensors are added, not sure about VLS, but probably ready to undergo sea-testing soon. The second one now sits in the construction area where the first one used to be. It looks like about 4-6 months behind in construction compared to the first.
For the two in HD, one looks like the sensors are going to be fit soon and maybe launched in a couple of months. The other one just showed up in late November. If I was to guess, probably 3 months behind the first HD 054A.
There are plenty of photos of this on both CDF and SDF.
This along with 071 LPD are probably the two most watched projects, so you have nice progression of their photos.
tphuangIronically enough, this was the first flame in the entire thread… :rolleyes:
The key deficiency in the IN fleet is missile based area AAW capability. The Viraat with its picket line of Ka-31s and SHARS can provide some degree of AAW for the fleet but it’s mostly too little and too close. The escort ships need the ability to keep the baddies at arm’s reach with its missiles to let the carrier go on the offensive.
I’ve been on enough forum to know what kind of thread turns into flaming. Once it gets to comparing IN and PLAN, you know what you are going to get.
tphuangare you this insecure that you need to start another of these flaming threads? Seriously
tphuangActually the China did offer chineses radar,but the Pakistani which has access to the latest US and European radar technology (rememeber there large number of Pakistani engineer being employ by Saudi arabian AF to maintain F-15 and tornado) realized Chinese make avionic is generation behind.this may be the reason why they select the european radar.
dude, Pakistan selected Chinese radar, this is quite well known. prototype 4 is using entirely Chinese avionics.
tphuangCrobato, Just ignore this ***.
All he can do is just pulling in different and unrelated things and tried to argue without any concrete prove and evidence, just a waste of time and showing how stupidity of him.From now on, just ignore him.
Look at how he tried to argue:
You talked about: MKK
He Uses A-50 to argueYou talked about: AWACS is considered strategic
He uses Space and Nuclear as argumentsYou talked about: evaluation samples
He uses”U need english comprehension skills here”You talked about: SD-10 missile
He said “musharraf begging russians “You talke about: Su-30MK2
He said “same can be said about any other aircraft like F-16 blocks”He just wandering and throw in all different stupid replys to you.
Just a waste of your time.
can you imagine this guy actually argues like this on another forum under the name h177? btw, if I’m right about this, he is the same guy that said “su-35 will be better than F-35 in 2015”.
tphuangJust ignore Star49, for some reason he has got a gripe against china which is rather bizzare when one considers that his favourite country, pakistan, is virtually completely reliant on china for its continuing survival.
in a way, I’m actually amazed by his persistence. After a day of hard work, I find enough energy to reply to maybe one of his ultra-long post, but this guy just keeps on going. It gets to the point where I just don’t care anymore.
tphuangWhat this has anything to do with beliefs. I posted the information from so many sources and u havent provided anything from even a single source to condridict it. and i dont go other forms.
I asked for what you are trying to say and your only move is just to bring in article from a while back that says China is evaluating A-50 or might be getting A-50 and then I have no idea what you are even saying?
Are you saying that those KJ-2000 are from Russian A-50s? That’s clearly wrong. If not, what are you saying?
so kanwa is 100% accurate and the rest are not.
I stated where kanwa is accurate and where it is not. I also stated that the time that the article is published matters, because when less evidence is available, people tend to get it wrong. As I mentionned with the Richard Fisher example.
it is not about zhemcheng. it is the technlogy to build slot modern radar.
oh brother, lab 14 developed KLJ-1 (slotted array radar) in the 90s. If you are implying that they got that technology from the Russians, they must have the ability to travel back in time.
where is new evidence to change conclusions about A-50?
we’ve seen photos of KJ-2000 that are clearly converted from IL-76 in plaaf fleet already. So, that takes away Russian involvement. We’ve seen China putting different types of radar on different platforms without Russian involvement like on Tu-154 and Y-8. That shows China has the ability to do conversion into surveillence aircraft.
how it is wrong.
mentionned above
and where is Russian in service Bars and so many other things.
when did Bars become an AESA radar?
I am saying converting 4 IL-76 into A-50 in 3 years. U just cant buy old IL-76 from market and do it without having the data. otherwise China would have done this instead of buying new as russia is not buying new but extending current life. and where is ur indigenous IL-78 tanker.
U are not smarter than UK/Israel.
More work would have to be done to convert into a tanker. As I mentionned many times already, it was Chinese owned IL-76 from the 90s and they got plenty of data on A-50 and Phalcon and such and they saw Israelies to the conversion. They learnt a lot, I’m sure. If you read any of Kanwa’s interview, you would notice that before buying a system, China asks for system data extensively.
how many Y-8 AEW and KJ-200 do u have and when the program started? maybe 2 or 3 each and it is nothing comapred to IL-76.
around 2-3 for each, but there are 5 or 6 different high new projects. That would result in anywhere from 10 to 15 Y-8s converted. And you have to realize that there are different priority levels, for KJ-2000, it has the highest priority, so they put the most resource in there for conversion.
u dont have that many Y-8 with antennas and i am sure it started long time before KJ-2000.
The first Y-8 balance beam also flew in 2001. Again, it’s process in getting certified is much slower than KJ-2000 shows that it is lower in priority. More resource -> faster finish.
so it has bought the technology.
It’s called RnD.
so any thing that goes against ur stated belief so kids must be doing it. they are calling RD-93 license version as WS-13. so there is no point in calling it indigenous.
hmm, except the Russians never gave license production of RD-93 to China. How can they possibly license produce it if they did not get the license?
And, again, that link I posted has no reference to engine, you are going to have to post your own link.
tphuangAgain, STATE what your beliefs are toward KJ-2000 and that alone. It’s kind of hard to tell what you think half of the time. On one hand, you are saying that China got A-50 platforms from the Russians. On the other hand, when I mention which IL-76 got converted, you are questioning what’s inside. State it clearly. I hate it when you consistently bringing new stuff into this debate that has nothing to do with the debate.
I must ask, are you h177 from PDF?
So only article from January 2006 works but not before and that only from Kanwa.
where did I say that? Read my comments about Kanwa in the past. It’s very consistent. Kanwa is not the most accurate source, but when it comes to reporting what Russians delivered to China and what Russian companies said in interviews, it’s quite accurate.
so from where the technology behind J-10 radar comes from? every body can make a factory for radar manufacturing but the basic and applied research takes decades of experiance.
So you are one of those people that believe J-10 uses Zhemchug or not? Answer the question.
so only kanwa is right? and Washington Post, AviationWeek, FlightInternational, JDW, Taiwanese sources are all wrong. and Russian deputy Prime minister words does not hold any water. Even US official with vast intelligence operatus, military attaches knows nothing.
some interview to obscure publication has more weight.
No, it’s about the date rather than anything else. People thought one way in 2000-2002, but now they’ve had to revise on their beliefs. Just read Richard Fisher articles, he had to change his assessment of numerous Chinese systems multiple times. And this guy reports to the American congress. Reason is that when new evidences are revealed, it changes people’s conclusions.
And yes, your articles from 2000 are proven wrong. If you bothered opening your eyes and look at a few photos, you would see that.
And yes, Richard Fisher has revised to the conclusion that KJ-2000 uses AESA radar produced indigenously. Why don’t you find an in-service Russian AWACS that uses AESA radar?
photos does not show the technology behind. conversion can be done anywhere on any aircraft. think about logic. If Russia does not sell ready made radar sets. u can build 4 AWACS in 3 years.? how long other Chinese AWACS have been running and how many have been actuall built over that time.
You are saying China can’t produce 4 set of radars in 3 years?
They’ve built even more other surveillence platforms in even less time. Just look at the numerous Y-8J, Y-8 AEW and KJ-200 platforms they converted. Look at the number of surveillence radar they produced in the last few years for the different Y-8 platforms. And remember, KJ-2000 has a lot higher priority inside plaaf than Y-8 platforms. Are you going to claim they bought them all from Russia?
India will receive first AWACS after 4 years from those who already knows how to build, test and have done it before. Even Boeing/SAAB cant do it.
Are you comparing Chinese technology to Indian technology?
this much money to upgrade old IL-76 to A-50 standard.
Yes, China invested a lot of money in this.
there are alot of other things regarding IL-76.
i have already finshed ur myth regarding indigenous WS-13. by clearly pointing a link to pakistan aeronautical website. and according to saturn engine it takes 4 years to certify a new engine from scratch. so it does not take so long.
Are you talking about this site?
http://www.pac.org.pk/amfsite-final/jf17specifications.html
It makes no mention of WS-13 or RD-93. And seriously, it looks like a little kid did the page.
tphuangand technical data does not mean that they give construction details. it is just hearsey. Israelis could have done this for India from second hand stuff but they were unable.
yes it does, in fact, if you read that kanwa article (It’s January 2006 issue btw), the Russians (VEGA) are saying just by looking at the exterior of KJ-2000, that they think China is copying a lot of the ideas that they had. (including even what paint colour to use)
so how can Flight International in 2002 so accurately predict that A-50E will come in 2004-2005 period if it is Indigenous development project. No one could predict J-10 finishing time back than. and those leased aircraft didnot eve left.
Does your logic reside in posting a billion article from early this decade from non-credible sources concerning pla? Are you one of those people who still believe J-10 uses Zhemchug?
u can judge from this 2000 report. they are indicating end of 2003. both Old reports within one year of accurate time.
read the same kanwa article, they sold China one set of the radar for evaluation after the Phalcon controversy. That’s it, just for evaluation.
Seriously, I don’t even know why you keep on insisting this kind of rubbish? Obviously what they believe to happen in 2000-2002 didn’t happen. We know exactly which IL-76 in plaaf fleet got converted to KJ-2000. We have photos to prove it. And you seem to believe some analysis on a non-reliable source on Chinese news from 2000 is more relevant. It’s laughable. I really honestly don’t even know what you are trying to say. Why don’t you state clearly what your beliefs are, so we can at least correct some of that.
tphuanghave u seen anywhere in the world that AWACS conversion is done in 2 years. especially when u have no prior experiance and the previous one is done by some one else and have no data about the platform.
russians are officially prohibited from telling about technical cooperation. and there is no attempt of selling the awacs since 2001. u can see from airshow participation of the system.
They already watched the Israelis fitting Phalcon on A-50 for a while. As for data, well, it seems like a practice of Chinese to ask for all possible technical data regarding a product while enquiring about a purchase. A-50 is no exception. You should read those Kanwa interviews where the Russians got really annoyed at this Chinese practice. As for technical cooperation, I’m sure they are allowed to comment whether they cooperated or not. They don’t have to say how much they cooperated. If you read that article, what I’m saying would make more sense.
tphuangI’m kind of afraid of Yak-130’s FBW after that crash.
I dug up an article from April
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/Get/WQZB/04011226332.htm
Which interviews L-15 chief developer.
He basically said that they spent a year to build a new flight control simulation lab and at the same time, used help from foreign and domestic sources to create the first triple-axis quadriplex FBW system for a chinese trainer.
tphuangwhen they received the A-50 back from Israel? I have put 2002 interview. and 2004 pictures flying of A-50
alright, 2002 then, still 2 years then.
do u think Ilyusian/Berive specialist are not sitting in China to do the conversion. just like anyother project.
That’s what they said to Kanwa. Kanwa is not the best source for everything (like analyzing data), but its Russian interviews are some of the most accurate stuff it does. You get an exact idea of what the Russians think about certain Chinese systems and what the Russians think Chinese are interested in. And I honestly don’t see what the russians have to gain by admitting that they did not help China on KJ-2000.
tphuangit does not say combat radii with internal fuel. the only thing obvious is 3700KM ferry range(with no weopons, and no mention of flight profile) with two external tanks.
since it specifically mentionned two external tanks for ferry range and did not mention the same for the other profiles, that should say something.
I am just saying that senior Sukhoi official are themseleves comparing to lighter F-18E. so there word carries weight as it is for export.
EF has limited internal fuel capacity compared to Flanker.
It’s nice that they said it, but I’m wondering how that is achievable since flanker is so larger in every dimension compared to F-18E. And I’m sure F-18E ‘s avionics are not going to be heavier than flanker’s avionics.
what this aircraft has anything do with new flanker except for the name.
I simply asked you whether you were referring to this flanker or not, the answer is obviously no.
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