MondarizEven after decades under the ice her cannon…..and its ammunition worked…..and they certainly proved that! 😉
I just hi-jack my own thread a bit here :p
How are the follow-up operations going?
Last i checked there were two outfits looking firmly at the remaining P-38s and the two B-17s. One from Germany and an American group too.
MondarizIn answer to the original question…..’Glacier Girl’, without question! 🙂
Without doubt the most amazing rescue mission 😎
Here she is in her underground realm.
http://acepilots.com/mt/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/glacier-girl.jpg
and here is the full story (in case someone don’t know it).
MondarizPaul is dead right – it is the ‘How long is a piece of string’ argument.
This is a good and very complete project. The level of work required will depend on a large number of factors. The value as it stands is dependant on those, and cannot be guessed upon without having access to the aircraft and the relevant paperwork.
Bruce
Well it need not be that complicated.
Say a static Spit is about X dollars (never fly again).
A flying Spit is about Y dollars.
A spit in a condition between static and flying is somewhere between Y and X. I did not ask for any actual figure, just a ball park amount.
I have seen flying Mustange for sale at between 1 and 2 million dollars, so thats the ball park i figure for them.
My guess on a Spit, would be 1 million for a fair project and 2-3 million for a flyer. Surely someone can ball park it better.
MondarizTrue, but i took “This aircraft is not currently flying.” to mean, that it could be made airworthy without a huge rebuild.
MondarizHow much would a non-flying Spit set you back?
MondarizCatalina.
KZ-7.
T-33.
C-47.
C-54.
But not much on any of them.
MondarizI’m not personally looking for a B-29 😀
I think you are right about the Dugway proving grounds. I’m not at my normal PC, so I don’t have the document here. I seem to remember the location was described as “north of granite peak”. I will see what Google earth can find, but “partly buried” might mean you can’t see it.
My main interest is the fact, that its still there. However, storage at a place called something with “proving ground”, does not bode well for the condition 😉
Whatever the condition, surely there are always something that can be used (by CAF,or some static project).
MondarizConsidering that the last Voodoo cockpit went unsold at $5000, I can’t see this one attracting much attention at double that price.
MondarizThere is supposed to be a disused railway tunnel in Hampshire close by a former RAF base containing crated planes and spares.It has been sealed at the ends by develpoments so the only way in would be from above.This is something I read on a forum,maybe here, a few years back
I remember reading something along those lines.
I’m inclined to file it under “legends”. Primarily because it would serve no point to seal off aircraft in a railway tunnel. Disposing of aircraft by burial would seem like a solution, when those aircraft are located on a remote pacifis island, but when in Hampshire, it would be easier to contract a local scrap merchant.
However, stranger things have happened.
I remember how storage personnel in RDAF recently found parts for machinery not used since 1955. The parts (not aircraft related) had dutyfully been stored and counted every year, without anyone ever realising it was discontinued.
MondarizNice to hear you saved aVampire fuselage pod.
By the way. you are right on the mark regarding the intend of this thread.
There were times when surplus materials could be easily dumped and covered, without anyone asking questions about it. Luckily things are no longer so.
Of cause many of those sites are still around, and its a safe bet, that those in the know, would prefer not to talk too much about it. Not due to any state secret, but simply because they would need to clean it up.
I worked on an airbase with a pre-war history. Although there are no buried aircraft, there are evidently quite a bit of polution. Before people began focusing on the environment, things were simply dumped. That goes for any surplus substance, like fuel, oil and even battery acid. The airbase is now closed, but to avoid the cleaning bill, they deemed the area a recreational “park”. Using it as aresidencial area would involve top-soil replacement, which is a very expensive operation.
Any substantial dumpsite, which is not already cleared for construction, is unlikely to be declared so, due to the level of polution in the soil. People no longer want to live on top of poluted lands.
As i mentioned in my last post, they are now clearing Kagman airfield, or at least working on a plan to clear it. I think this kind of operation will be something we will see more and more, so from an aviation history point of view, it might be worth following this development, both locally and globally.
MondarizI have spend the last day browsing for information regarding post-war aircraft dumps.
Initially I would mostly find posting like this, people discussing myth and legends surrounding war asset disposal. Until finally it hit me; burring a number of aircraft is not officially a historic question, its en environmental question.
The US has at least one entity involved with such matters: The Defense Environmental Restoration Program.
Once I began looking in that direction, things became more clear.
One thing i found, was the 2007 remedial action work plan for Kagman airfield on Saipan. Kagman is one of the pacific bases rumored to contain buried aircraft.
Although the work plan didn’t specifically mention aircraft remains, it did mention metallic debris that was the be reclaimed by a local metal salvager. It did not specify any amount, so this could simply be oil drums, jerry cans and other metallic waste.
The above work plan is not evidence for any buried aircraft, but its evidence that the US government is tracking these landfills and local authorities are concerned by the environmental impact. In other words: they want them gone.
One buried aircraft might be considered a historic curiosity, but a landfill with aircraft is an environmental disaster. This might not pose a big problem for larger states like Indonesia and PNG, but for small islands, who make an income from tourists, their environment is essential.
This all adds up to a situation, where the possibility of recovering any legendary aircraft dump is slowly disappearing. If they are out there, they are in the process of being rectified and most probably very quiet.
Browsing papers from The Defense Environmental Restoration Program. I came across another little tasty bit. A plan to remove a “partly buried B-29” from an area that is NOT China Lake. Currently I have no more information regarding this aircraft, but I’m looking into it with some vigor. I can say that the location is Utah, so if anyone know more please post.
MondarizThere are still many wrecks throughout the pacific region.
Quite a large percentage is covered in jungle, and using GE in those areas would not yeild anything, even a B-29 would be able to dissapear completely.
However, there are areas, where the terrain/vegetation would leave an aircraft exposed. These are also the kind of areas, where a pilot might try to land a damaged/non-functioning aircraft.
The best example is “Swamp Ghost”. Clearly visible as a B-17 on Google Earth. Granted that particular aircraft was already discovered and thus easy to find. PNG is a huge island and its not impossible, that there are another “Swamp Ghost” out there.
In areas where the terrain is more barren (Norway, Sibiria, Canada ect.) I have located quite a few wrecks. Not as a “first find” but simply to see what could be found.
Apart from the minute chance of finding a new wreck, my main reason to searech those areas is simple curiosity. Anybody who have read about the pacific war, would know those exotic names: Gilbert islands, Tinnian, Iwo Jima ect.
Seeing the remains of WWII bases and fortifications today brings history up close. Tiny Tinian island is still clearly marked by the airbase, where 500 bombers operated. Just thinking about that number on such a small island is fantastic.
There are also shipwrecks visible around many islands.
D-Day wrote:
“I can see one or two parts dealers Errrr…. sorry, I mean Historians, I can think of two right now, taking a much closer look at their G E.
Is this kind of publicity really for the best one wonders ?”
I think finding the aircraft is rather “easy”, compared to the task of getting recovery permission. AFAIK there are already quite a few aircraft, where people are already trying to get recovery permissions.
Besides, GE searching is mostly for people, who can’t actually go there and search local archives, talk to local people and otherwise take the most direct route. Apart from using GE for terrain evaluation, search planning and general area familiarisation, I don’t think actual wreckhunters use it much. Its too much work 🙂
MondarizMondariz,
I came across this pic on a link in another KP thread, but it graphically shows what jungle can do to hide an airframe, making location by air or GE very difficult.
Even though it appears to be in a clearing, its broken form, discolouration and partial covering of leaves and plants would make it virtually impossible to locate from the air.
Regards
Mark Pilkington
Hi Mark,
Thanks for posting the picture.
Yes, it would be hard to locate a wreck like that (lets say impossible). The same goes for 99.99% of pacific wrecks, maybe even more :p
My idea was to scan for obvious wrecks (like “Swamp Ghost”). There might not be any wrecks like that left, but just maybe there is one out there.
We have all heard about the “lost dump-site on PNG” legend. Not that i fully belive it, but it cost me nothing to spend an hour now and again looking for it.
That aside, I have now reconsidered my GE search and are currently searching airports/airfields for various “parked” aircraft. For obvious reasons i seem to find a lot more that way 😀
BTW you can use ICAO airport codes on Google earth. Key in the four letters and GE will take you straight there.
MondarizRegarding the Condor from Brandon Hill:
Not to hi-jack the thread, but are there are there many WWII wrecks in Ireland?
I got there quite often and would like a bit of digging if possible :p
MondarizIf only 🙁
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