When I talk about the Typhoon being a long time coming for the RAF I am talking about what they have had to make do with for the past 20 or 30 years. With the exception of the Lightning and maybe the Phantom (both of which were prematurely retired to save money) RAF pilots have had to make do and mend with pretty much whatever they were given. The aircraft they had were generally underpowered and RAF pilots had to wring every scrap of performance out of them and still the airframes underperformed when compared to what their allies were using. So the RAF had to come up with tactics that took into account their performance deficiencies and some of it was pretty off the wall and created a slightly unique mindset amongst RAF pilots.

Now they have something like the Typhoon which is for the RAF ‘a long time coming’ I wonder how they are going to apply decades of experience to the type. Its a very interesting and exciting time for the RAF (even if it is shrinking) and I think that is what makes the Typhoon special. It is being brought into service with a force that hasn’t had the benefit of its sheer power, perfomance and ‘electrickery 😀 ‘ for a very long time. Not all in one package at least.

The RAF pilots always had excelent aircraft, i mean the Harrier armed with AIM-120 and ASRAAM are excellent aircraft, the Tornado the same, the Sepecat Jaguar are other excellent aircraft, i think the Rafale and Eurofighter will prove to be better than expected, i do not think the F-22 will become the king of fighters, the americans are over relying in stealth.

for example this

versus this

every body automatically thinks the F-22 will beat it, yeah but in reality i do not think there is enough knowledge by either side of the capabilities that both machines have in radars and ECM systems, i mean here we are just speculating based upon the idea the Su-34 must be the losser, but i doubt it, i feel both sides are working hard to outfight each other and only in war we can more or less see the results

Same the Europeans i do not think they are not thinking that this fighter

might not face this one

I am sure they are thinking how to beat the F-22 and how to detect it

That’s what it currently is for Canadians and Europeans. 😀

Your belief socialist proaganda is very heartwarming (in a 1960s kind of way).
The fact remains rthat the people of Cuba are tired of the government restrictions found in old style communism. Heck, not even the Russians beleve in it anymore. And despite Castro’s hatred of the U.S. he spends a lot of time griping about the lack of U.S. trade and dollars.
True, Cuba likes being looked up to by the left of South America, but aside from the party elites, the average citizen would welcome the fall of the Castro brothers. If that weren’t the case, I don’t think we’d see so many people rasking the 90 mile trip to Florida.

It’s easy to be pro-Castro guy when you’re not living under his rule…and have the advantages of a Western lifestle and freedoms. :diablo:

DO you know Cubans have you ever been in Cuba? you are following the typical american propaganda that Cubans hate socialism, number one Cubans do not hate socialism, socialism in Cuban terms, Cubans know that overthrowing Castro won`t chance any thing, in fact it will worsen their situation because they know how the rest of Latin america lives in constant poverty and the rest of South America does not believe the FTAA and they have rejected the US plans to extend NAFTA to Mercosur .

Venezuela has bought SU-30s to defend their country of the US plans to colonize them as they have done with Mexico, Brazil rejected the FREE TRADE AGREEMENT proposed by the US because they see no good intentions, they just see the typical argument of Democracy to enslave them under the excuse of free trade that only colonize them economically as they have done to Mexico and how the promise of a NAFTA comunity has just ended in a wall in the US-Mexican border after all the promises of prosperity have turned to millions of illegal workers enpoverished by NAFTA.

In 2007 there is not trust in the US policy towards Latina Amercia in most of South America and that has strengthened the Cuban view in latin america and kept alive Socialism in Cuba thanks to Chavez and Morales just to mention the most leftist governments.

By the way many cubans know the embargo has empoverished their country more than Castro`s policies

You seem to be missing economic reality.
After Castro is gone…either his puppet brother will take over the secret police or propped up by Venezuelan oil money or…and here’s a smart guess:
The Canadians and Europeans (backed by American money) will turn Cuba into the new Las Vegas. Sun, drugs, girls, booze, cigars. Sounds like a great holiday resort for sun-blocked Europeans.

It still might be a technical “communist ” state..in the same way the PRC or Vietnam is now. Filled with semi-slave wage factories making goods for the west…while some get rich.

It makes me laugh how simple is your view, number one Cuba and Venezuela are leading a movement of total rejection to the US influence in Latin America, this movement has been strengthened, Cuba has now an ally, named Venezuela and up to a degree Bolivia and Brazil.

If you watched the news you have noticed the real mood in South america, people in Latin America feel fed up with the US policy towards the region.

Your idea that the Cubans will welcome the US is simply too simplistic, in 2007 Cuba has better living standards than Mexico or Brazil.
The poverty in Mexico and Brazil, the US migratory policy and the total disconection that Washington has with latin american in special South America, has created a shift towards a united South America and very likely that will strengthen the Cuban Venezuelan ties.

Many think when Castro falls Cuba will become again what it was, a US casino and Brothel for the US mobsters and tourists, the reality is not that while Venezuela and Brazil support Cuba there is a Chance Cuba won`t turn to the US sphere of influence, therefore i guess there are now in 2007 some military tensions between the Cuban and the US and high state of alert in the Cuban military

Listen, I dont think you are in any way wrong in saying the Typhoon is a long time coming for the RAF. I hold this Air Force in very high regards, they would make the best out of any aircraft and its great they have finaly aquired a platform that can tangle with most anyone out there. However, I do think the Typhoon at this time is not a groundbreaking platform especialy when compared to its peers. It is good, and with further development and investment it can be great even without stealth. Things down the road a bit such as a true AESA with all the tactics that come with it (EA, jamming, spoofing, decoupled crewstations, LRIP etc etc etc), confromal fuel tanks, a truly robust air to ground capability with many weapons choices, improved engines, and even TV will take it to a whole new level. Stealth, although you seem to think its way less important than most, is one hell of an asset when going into an advanced IADs, it may not be the end all silver bullet, but it does help A LOT. I think you will see the results of F-22 vs Typhoon future excercises will prove this, although this may be well into the future.

“The Typhoon can cut it in any scenario with pretty much anything else out there, WVR, BVR whatever it will take on all comers including an F22 if the F22pilot strides into battle thinking nobody can see him. Use that mindset and you’ll get shot down very quickly and any edge stealth gave you is lost because of a basic lack of understanding.”

-I think all the recent Flag’s and Cope’s the Raptor has been involved with against very credible platforms show otherwise. The Raptor pilot seems to have a very good understanding of his weapon’s capabilities, stealth very much included, the Raptor has first look first shot capability where the Typhoon simply does not compare. You easly dismiss stealth technology when tied to superior data fusion and systems integration (the Typhoon only has one of these fundemental qualities in its possesion) and no your dismissiveness does not annoy me.

Frank, I think anything I say contradictory of your beliefs you find insulting and repugnant so with all do respect (and I mean it) the Typhoon seems to be a good answer for an up to date fighter for the RAF and others, but I still dont see it as being overtly unique or groundbreakingly innovative when comapared to its peers. And I am sorry for being all the vile and terrible things you have called me over the last 4 pages of this thread;)

The Eurofighter is on time, not in the time politicians would had liked but on time, why?

Number one of the more 150 nations on earth very few make aircraft, the ones that make aircraft, for example, Brazil, Ukraine, Canada, China, Argentina, Sweden, Taiwan, India, South Korea, Japan etc etc … can not build an Eurofighter equivalent, and number two, the ones that make Eurofighter`s equivalents well are only Russia, France and the US, these nations have had the same delays that the Eurofighter program has had, even in the case of Russia there is no Eurofighter equivalent and the F-22 will be built in so small numbers that still is a very expensive aircraft

After saying that i do not think the Eurofighter is a looser but a total winner, and at least have assured bigger manufacturing numbers than the F-22 and Rafale and probably only the J-10 might be built in larger numbers.

The only possible rival is the F-35 but this will enter service at least a decade after the Eurofighter and in performance does not seem to be as good as the Eurofighter.

The Eurofighters has boosted Europe`s aircraft ability to a level enough to remain competitive with the rest of aircraft manufacturing nations assuring Europe`s aircraft manufacturing independence for at least another 20 years.

If the Europeans can detect Stealth aircraft well the Eurofighter will be one of the best aircraft ever built in the early XXI century

You just have to Google Sorcha Faal to see the utter garbage that is spouted. ‘Faal’ popped up a few years ago and is probably a nom de plume for another failed conspiracy loon.

Obviously ‘Flogger’ (MiG-23MLD) will be analysing the details from this ‘Russian source’ and bringing them up time and time again when F-16 shootdowns are mentioned in the forums.

LOL. Who is claiming the F-16 loss in Nevada?

http://media-newswire.com/release_1045547.html

‘(Media-Newswire.com) – 3/13/2007 – NELLIS AIR FORCE BASE, Nev. ( AFNEWS ) — An F-16 Fighting Falcon assigned to the 16th Weapons Squadron from the U.S. Air Force Weapons School here crashed Feb. 12 at 8:50 p.m. near the end of the runway while on approach to the Tonopah Test Range Airfield, approximately 20 miles southeast of Tonopah, Nev.

The pilot ejected safely and there were no reports of any injuries or damage to property on the ground.

The cause of the accident is under investigation.

The aircraft was flying a night training mission over the restricted Nevada Test and Training Range.

Tonopah Test Range Airfield is approximately 212 miles northwest of Nellis Air Force Base.

The F-16 is a compact, multi-role fighter aircraft. It is highly maneuverable and designed for both air-to-air combat and air-to-surface attack.

The U.S. Air Force Weapons School is the Air Force’s graduate-level pilot training program.

More information will be released as it becomes available.’

i am your idol, you bring me even for breakfast, seems you never can not see thing beyond your patriotic lenses:cool: cool buddy life goes on

see the US version http://www.nbc6.net/news/11232007/detail.html

I have been loosely following the EF/Typhoon program for years now, and with all do respect to its supporters, I just don’t understand what is so awesome about this aircraft? I know I probably need a good “prospective kick in the pants” on this subject, so please give me your opinion of how the EF/Typhoon stacks up against similar platforms or what its groundbreaking or practical virtues are. It seems like a European Super Hornet with better aerodynamics and way less weapons/avionics integration and flexibility. I know there will be some very strong opinions on this subject so let it rip!

Up to what i heard and read, these are the reasons that make the Eurofighter special.

The Eurofighter can supercruise and has the best supersonic agility of any current fighter

As any modern fighter upgrades with newer radars and thrust vectoring are on the design boards or can be retrofitted to late Eurofighter variants.

Which is a question what version you are talking of and of what aspect. The Germans (able to make at least some comparison with both in service for a while) found it way better than the MiG-29 in all aspects, including range, speed, acceleration, turn, reliability, mainatainability, handling and HMI.
But maybe you know it better?

The MiG-29 has better turn rate. 23deg/sec against only 20 deg/sec achieved by the F-15, by the Way the german MiG-29 were old machines with detuned engines, as far as 1994 no F-15 was better in dogfight than the MiG-29 armed with Archer R-73, HMS and better turn rate, also the germans did not operate the MiG-29C that is a better machine than the old MiG-29s operated by the Luftwaffe, and the MiG-29 was only found deficient in BVR combat against western fighters due to a less advanced radar and less quick acceleration.

however versus the Su-27, the F-15 does not offer any thing better beyond faster speed and higher ceiling and it is inferior in agility and range because the Su-27s achieves a 21.5 deg/sec turn

WTF said anything about me being right wing????

I have no idea where you are from, geographically or socially, though it really doesn’t matter.
As a proud blue collar American, I can tell you that in this instance, “they” have it right.
The average working family IS having to pay more taxes, in part due to illegals who DON’T, IS dealing with increased crime, again, due in part to illegals with no respect for either the law or the country that is providing them with a living, and IS having to fight for jobs against illegal immigrants who shouldn’t be here in the first place.

As far as the United States of North America: Sure, as long as either EVERYONE or NO-ONE plays by the rules. Doesn’t matter to me whether it’s Marquis de Queensbury, or a bar brawl. Just level the playing field.

MAtt

let`s leave it here, i am not interested in continuing this discussion any longer already i know how americans view illegal immigrants and how they consider they share no responsability in that, just wait a few years 10-20 years from now and let`s see who is right, and i can promise you in few years Mexico-Canada and the US will become like the EU, and sooner or later they will stablish a EU style community in North American, and that will include Mexico in NORAD, and the liberalization of the job market between this three nations wait and see i hope you do not get disapointed of Lou Dobbs and Bill O reilly right wing propaganda that at the end goes against the economic and social changes that Globalization brings and only is based upon a racial hatred towards Mexico.

regards