Well, now you are talking acceleration… it was speed in qustion earlier, you said can only do Mach 0.92 @ 10000 meters?! or was i mistaken?

Even @ sea level (0 meters altitude) can fly @ supersonic speed i.e. 1200 km/h, not sure exactly what Mach 1 is but i think about ~ 1060 km.h…..

So, there you go

See this graph, it is the horizontal speed graph for the MiG-25BR, taken from airwar.ru, in it is very clear that from 0-5km it will reach Mach 1, from 5km-10km it will reach Mach 1.5, from 10 to 15km will reach mach 2, from 15km to 18km will reach mach 2.8

32,000 ft and it cant go supersonic? you sure you are not meaning 1000 meters and not 10,000?

The MiG-25RB manual stablishes that between 7km and 10km of altitude the MiG-25 is limited to Mach 1.5 at best and only at more than 16km it can start flying at Mach 2.35 and beyond 17km it can start flying at mach 2.6 to Mach 2.8, in fact it can bomb at altitudes of 21km at speeds of Mach 2.35.

The MiG-25 at low altitudes is a sitting duck, it needs to fly high to be really good, one of the reason the Israelies shot down the syrian MiG-25PDs was simply the MiG-25s were flying too low, also that is the reason no MiG-25 was flown at low altitudes in 1982 over the bekka valley and no combat happened between the Israeli F-15s and the Syrian MiG-25PDs in June 1982 since the MiG-25PDs were flying too high

Nice one … 😀 I think the times when China will start “copying” anything Russian after its first flight in Russia are finally over ! :diablo:

Let’s but these bad jokes beside … just received the recent AIR International issue with the Su-34 article !

Just the comparison of the individual delivery dates of each Su-27IB/-34 makes me fear a very, very, very slow progress on the T-50’s delivery.

Deino

The Su-34 has no western equivalent, is an F-111 with Su-27 capabilities, compared to any Chinese design still is far far more advanced, the JH-7 still is a 1980s design and the J-10 can be beaten by well armed MiG-29s or F-16s however the SU-34 as a bomber has no equivalent yet, besides Russia still has Tu-160s that China has not.
In fact the Su-34 is three times more capable than the Su-24 and that is also the same compared to a JH-7
the PAK FA will be a fighter very likely 10 or 15 years ahead of any thing Chinese, because Russia has already started building the machine and China has only shown artistic renditions without a company supporting them.

Russia has built more than 2500 MiG-29s and Su-27s, China still is basicly replacing third generation aircraft.
How many J-10s has built China? well less than the Russians have built Su-27s and MiG-29s since 1998

Who is the hunter and whom is the hunted?

As lions and cheetahs fail when they hunt sometimes more than ten times for one succesful hunt that Mirage F1 failed no kill that day

Stay serious. To manage such values at all –
you have to be at the correct wing-setting, the correct speed, at a low fuel state and an experienced pilot on the controls to keep the optimum at that brief moment.
There is nothing like a better speed, because 700 km/h is 700 km/h, when they ment the acceleration between 700 km/h to 1100 km/h. You are aware about some data of the Flogger, are you? That values given are in line with the 72° sweep. To get that acceleration performance, you have the correct wing-setting at all and in full burner already, which by the way is no good idea at such a low fuel load already. Normaly you are at 45° sweep at best around 700 km/h and in military. To change sweep and light-up the burner will take some seconds under such more typical conditions.
To avoid misunderstandings, the Flogger is a high performance aircraft and none serious will underestimate that. It is no smart idea to take optimum values as granted in typical situations.
In a “dragster race” the Flogger maybe the winner against the Mirage F1, but in a typical combat both are even and the outcome is related to the very situation at first. In my estimate the gains for the Flogger will rise at height, when as a Mirage F1 pilot I would try to stay low or medium at first.

Man you are free to speculate, but definitively without the Mirage F1 data for each specific speed and altitude all your speculation amounts to wishes at best.

Airwar.ru gives values based probably upon studies done by the Russian military and the flight experience of Iraqi and Cuban pilots.
The only thing i tried to let you know was the fact wing sweep has a direct impact in flight performance in the MiG-23 flight characteristics.

If wing sweep has a direct impact is due to specific aerodynamic basics.
small angles of wing sweep increase lift at high AoA, that is a basic since to land the MiG-23 or F-14 these fighters will use angles around 16 deg to 14 deg, however as drag increases, the lift drag ratio makes more agile the MiG-23 with a sweep angle of 72 deg at 10km of altitude.

however since the MiG-23 is a very stable aircraft with its wing swept at an angle of 72 deg due to the aerodynamic center of lift shift, it is probable at higher speeds than 1100km when it starts using such angle the Mirage F-1 is more agile than the MiG-23

The Mirage has a compromise, only one wing sweep, so it is possible the MiG-23ML having similar specification but a VG wing might have the edge at speeds from 700km/h to 1100km/h as claimed by Airwar.ru.

I do see it similar. So there is no real difference in flying performance. It does depend on the tactical situation at a given moment and the pilots on the controls. Maybe you get an idea about the value of such data. A fighter without weapons and at minimum fuel is of little use in real combat. 😉

That is not necesarily true, since the MiG-23 has three wing sets it has three different rate of climbs, at 1km of altitude it has the same 220 m/s with both 45 deg and 72 deg wing sweep , but at 10km the 72 deg wing sweep allows it to double the 45 deg wing sweep`s rate of climb of 72 m/s.

The Mirage F1 has no variable geometry wings, so it has not three rate of climbs and surely to have a higher rate of climb at 10km is better wing sweep of 72 deg.

Same is with lower speeds and at 1km of altitude and at 45 deg sweep has a min turn radius of 800 meters at 500km/h an slightly bigger turn radius at 72 deg sweep and as speed increases so turn radius difference between both sweeps.

But at 10000 meters of altitude is more convinient to have a 72 deg of wing sweep because the turn radius is smaller with that wing set.

So they are not totally comparable.
The airwar.ru is believeable because obviously each design has speeeds where each one is better respectively, the analysis made by them makes the MiG-23 better at speeds between 700km/h and 1100km/h.

No it was not shot down(aircraft was not a “total loss”?), battle damaged yes, main damage was caused by the work being done on the runway at Rundu which entail removing the barrier nets etc. otherwise it would have been a different story. Had the SAAF Missiles worked then you would have seen different results. The Cubans had better missiles, all that the MiG-23 had in it’s favour was speed which enable them to out run the Mirage cannon fire.

Not everyone agree’s with your opinion either and that includes pilots that have flown both in combat.

You are free to believe what you want, and i am not going to argue a topic already i have argued with you, if it suits you to think it was not a loss okay, for me it was and it is enough for me that.
No point to convince you, you can live all your life thinking like that.
If you can show me the manual of the Mirage F1 and we compare it to the MiG-23 then if you show me it was the better fighter i will change my opinion, but your position is not a technical one rather a political one and such argumenst do not work just repeat claims and counter claims, however i believe AIRWAR.ru about the superiority of the MiG-23ML over the Mirage F1

as i said this forum is racist and i will not write in it anymore

man you do not need to get up set, simply take it easy, however for some people you are claiming things that other fellow members need more evidence to believe you, personally i would like to ask you what is the max speed the MiG-25R can get at 10000 meters and how many minutes it can fly at Mach 2.35 with bombs?